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The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.

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Coffee Addict @coffeeaddict

I think its interesting to watch the above video I posted in the original post, compared to the White House press briefing yesterday.

Do you think the media is trying to cause panic to make this seem like a bigger deal than it is?

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@coffeeaddict I think the Ebola outbreak is a really big deal for Liberia and North Africa. However, I do not think it is a big deal for us here in America. If the disease was airborne, it would be a huge deal, but because the disease can only be contracted by direct contact with an infected person’s bodily fluids, it is not likely to spread here in the USA. There aren’t enough infected people, and our health care facilities are top notch. Plus, even if people did start to get Ebola here, we could deal with it. The Americans that have been infected so far have been cured.

But like I said, for Africa it is a very big deal, your statistics above are a bit old, but the amount of people dying from the disease is only growing and there is not enough resources to deal with the problem adequately.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@coffeeaddict
@juliaw

Everybody should be very concerned. Ebola is also known by its group name – “Hemorrhagic Fever”.

The issue is being deliberately mis-represented for the sake of political correctness.

Hemorrhagic Fever is spread by physical contact and not air borne – that is true.
What is being avoided is that “contact with body fluids” is incomplete. The complete phrase is “contact with body fluids or excretions such as feces.”

In Africa as in other places western toilets are not common. Neither is “toilet paper”. What is common is “going poo-poo” (taking a dump in the bushes) just about anywhere. There are no sanitation provisions in the bushes so the cultural rule is “Eat with the right hand and wipe with the left”. My experience in Liberia and specifically in Monrovia, was that most people used sand or dirt to clean their hand (sort of!) Some public facilities might provide a common bucket of water? for cleaning up but most Westerners carry their own toilet paper or a packet of wipes.

While this is also a Muslim thing (Eat with the right and wipe with the left) it also applies to many people from Africa, India, and elsewhere who are not Muslims.

So how fast can this get out of hand? Well about as fast and as widespread as AIDS which is also spread by physical contact with ” bodily fluids”. The difference is that external contact will spread Hemorrhagic Fever where touch doesn’t spread AIDS as far as we know.

All you have to do is check on the personal hygiene practices of people from the areas where people are entering the US from to get an idea of where this is going.

Viral Hemorrhagic Fever ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hemorrhagic_fever ) is nothing to dismiss.

I have been to many places where VHF is common and it is nothing to ignore or marginalize.

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Sanni Lateef @sanibabo

This disease has being great problem in west Africa of recently it was report in USA. here in Nigeria we have being able outcome the so-called EBOLA due govt intensity care for it. it not a virus in which govt should relent for. As at last month the Nigeria govt declare state Ebola free, it is possible USA if quickly reaction are taken because USA is not place for the virus birth

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@sanibabo

It would be helpful if you could explain what is meant by “going poo-poo” in the bushes and how common that it. I was in Monrovia and several other places in Liberia but I also went to Sierra Leone. Sanitation was a real problem.

I carried my own drinking cup, a fork-knife-spoon set made by Kabar, and packs of toilet wipes along with some small bars of hand soap. That is a pretty common there among visitors.

The practice of “eat with the right and wipe with the left” is still very common.

Americans should realize that AIDS isn’t airborne either but it has certainly become an issue in the US. Just imagine if that had been Hemorrhagic Fever instead.

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Moselle Timless @mosellegold

@coffeeaddict
@peter-t-burke
@sanibabo
@juliaw

The fact that Ebola can be transferred threw contaminated objects, it is a huge issue and needs to be taken as such with precaution. The one things humans touch everyday is money. Money is one of most fastest traveling thing in this world. It goes threw plenty of hands with out asking who had this bill before me?

It shouldnt had to take Ebola to recognize the threats in this world that are taken lightly. I bet most people thought, “Oh its in Africa were safe here in America.”
Medical bills will sky rocket and rich pockets will become richer. We all forgot about natural healing plants that is at our access. Same extracts taken from these plants which makes the medicine to give to patients. Jamaica just had an outbreak as well, similar to Ebola . Cured with tumeric and some other herbs.

If America doesnt get back to its roots or atleast try to, there will be more panic and deaths.

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Policy MAKES me SIGH @policysigh

@mosellegold
@coffeeaddict
@peter-t-burke
@sanibabo
@juliaw

it is beyond frustrating to me that the United States media is trying to scare the USA citizens into thinking that we could potentially be at risk of a large scale ebola outbreak in the US.

This Ebola crisis, is only a crisis in Africa. It is not a direct threat to the US. I think its despicable that people in the media are using it as something to generate fear in the public to gain ratings, and that politicians are using it as a political football to make the current administration look bad with the upcoming election.

We will be fine, but our focus should be to help the people in Liberia and Africa because there it is a serious problem.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@policysigh
cc:
@mosellegold
@coffeeaddict
@peter-t-burke
@sanibabo
@juliaw

OK, so lets start at the beginning.

1. Ebola is a variety of Viral Hemorrhagic Fever

2. There is no known cure for Ebola and as a result it has a 70% mortality rate which is to say that currently 3 out of 4 people who get Ebola dies from it.

3. The US government is giving out the “statements” regarding the danger of Ebola and the US government never deliberately hides pertinent information from the US public.

4. The people in the US can always trust the intentions of the US government because the US government would never place its own interests ahead of the interests of the US public.

5. The US government would never deliberately lie or misrepresent the truth of a serious matter to the US public.

6. The US government has never lied to the US public before.

7. The Bureaucrats who work for the Federal Rulers would never lie to the public out of a desire to protect their own jobs and interests.

8. The Politicians who are the Federal Rulers would never lie to the public out of a self-serving interest in their own prosperity.

9. The citizens of the US should put their faith in the honesty and integrity of their fellow man because their fellow man has never intentionally deceived them.

I agree with you that there is no cause for concern since we have all the facts because the government is controlling the news on this issue and we know we can trust the government not to promulgate disinformation.

Good!! Now that we have gotten that out of the way…

VFR is not something to ignore. It is generally fatal and usually diagnosed too late to do any good. The current appearance of the issue is that it confined to just 2 or 3 people who actually got sick. That is the same attitude that was prevalent when AIDS arrived in the US (and probably from Africa also). The current condition of AIDS is a good indicator of the ability and willingness of the US government to solve a serious contagion issue.

Currently the government tells us that the issue is confined to Africa only and we all know that they would not lie to us, don’t we!

The government is hiding behind a technical issue as they generally do. When a person dies from a VHF – if the person was attended by somebody who factually determined the actual cause of death – a name is assigned as “cause of death”.
All of the VHFs have similar symptomatic appearances. So if you die from Dengue Fever it looks the same as if you died from Lassa Fever or Ebola. A person who dies from Marburg Virus has similar appearances as someone who died from Ebola.

VHF syndrome is a common collection of symptoms presented in people who are dead or dying from Ebola, Marburg, Crimea-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever, Lassa fever, Lujo virus, Argentine, Bolivian, Brazilian and Venezuelan hemorrhagic fevers, Dengue, RVF, and Lassa fever

Signs and symptoms of VHFs include (by definition) fever and increased susceptibility to bleeding (bleeding diathesis). Manifestations of VHF often also include flushing of the face and chest, small red or purple spots (petechiae), frank bleeding, swelling caused by edema, low blood pressure (hypotension), and shock. Malaise, muscle pain (myalgia), headache, vomiting, and diarrhea occur frequently. The severity of symptoms varies with the type of virus, with the “VHF syndrome” (capillary leak, bleeding diathesis, and circulatory compromise leading to shock) appearing in a majority of patients with filovirus hemorhhagic fevers (e.g., Ebola and Marburg), CCHF, and the South American hemorrhagic fevers, but in a small minority of patients with dengue, RVF, and Lassa fever.

So the records will show that only one or two died from diagnosed and confirmed Ebola while all the rest of the cases will be given some different name of local choice as a “cause of death”. Just trust your local public health officials and the US government – they would not just lie to cover up a display of ignorance on their part would they?

The testing to specifically identify the particular strain of VHF that actually cause the death of the individual is expensive and takes about 14 days to get meaningful results. Which would mean that the locals would be told that the guy who came in to work sick and throwing up on the floor and then went to the hospital and died three days later had VHF (but they would not be told which particular strain of VHF to avoid a public rush to survive). The people that the infected person came into contact with would still have a week to 10 days to see if they were going to develop symptoms that they had a virus that was most likely going to kill them.

Yup, you’re right. This is nothing to be concerned about in this the best of all possible worlds.

VHFs are spread by contact with bodily fluids right? Yup – but they forgot to mention that it is all so spread by even minor contact with the feces of an infected person. Remember the “Eat with the right, wipe with the left” issue? In Africa, and India? What do you suppose they wipe the left on afterwards?

There is a large population of illegal West Africans in the US who live as they did in their country of origin – but that would not be a problem in the US right? After all Freeport and Monrovia are great example of the progress of modern civilization, cleanliness, and sanitation – right?

Policysigh – this may sound somewhat smarmy but it is not meant to be just a snarky jab back.
I have been to West Africa and I am very concerned about what is appearing here in Texas. I will tell you that this is far more serious than the public is being told. VHF is not the flu – 3 out of 4 patients die from it.

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Gary @grand-vizier

@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@coffeaddict
@saibabo
@policysigh

Watching the Ebola hearing today is agonizing.
First Henry Waxman makes the predictable response that we need to spend more money.
Sorry, but money won’t fix stupidity.
That the second nurse was told by CDC to go ahead and fly on a commercial flight after confessing she had a low-grade fever ( an early indicator of Ebola) especially as she had been caring fo a recently deceased Ebola patient is not the sort of thing money fixes.
Dr.Frieden testifies, “we know how to deal with Ebola” is so obviously untrue that if it were not so serious would be laughable.
The patient DIED and at least two nurses are infected. Who knows how many others were exposed on the plane!
We are told you must be in contact with bodily fluids, but as I understand it, if an Ebola victim sneezes, the moisture in the sneeze will communicate the disease.
How would you avoid that in a confined space? Furthermore, the same sneeze material can be on countertops, door handles and everything else you can imagine.
So called experts sit with straight faces and try to tell the public that arriving passengers can be screened at airports to prevent Ebola infected persons from entering the country.
All of this from the same TSA we all know and love.
One would have to have the intelligence of a carrot to give any credibility to such nonsense.
The world must quarantine at the source.
No one should be allowed to exit Africa unless it is certain they are not carrying Ebola.
This is not impossible and while it may cause inconvenience it is much better and easier done than dealing with the obvious results of not doing it.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@grand-vizier

cc:
@juliaw
@coffeaddict
@saibabo
@policysigh

Gary,

For the most part I agree with your intentions but there are some further issues to consider.

The problem of fecal contamination from the absence of appropriate sanitation facilities (toilets, hygienic wipes of some kind, a sanitary system of disposing of the waste, etc) is not just restricted to West Africa. The Arab countries aren’t much cleaner.
The problem extends to the lack of appropriate sanitation for disease control in India and many other places on this planet.

If a person was infected in Africa and traveled from Monrovia to India (say Calcutta) by commercial airline and then non-stop to San Francisco by another commercial airline, they could spread the virus to India and deliver it to San Francisco. Do you suppose that California would quarantine and isolate an Arab Doctor who just flew in from India to give a speech about “the war against women in India”?

The actual solution would be to do what any rancher who wants to stay in the cattle business does. You limit all access to the ranch until the issue has passed. You check and quarantine all incoming cattle regardless of where they are from.

Govt bullshit alert – there is a huge difference between “quarantine” and “isolate”. You quarantine possible carriers of a contagion. This means that they are held as a group separate from contact with the main herd.

You isolate know infected cattle for treatment. They are held where all contact can be blocked – even with birds or wild rats. Isolation is expensive so the usual solution for cattle is to shoot them and burn the carcass in a quarantined area.

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Gary @grand-vizier

@peter-t-burke
I think we are in agreement.
I did not mean no one should come here from west Africa.
I meant no one should not be allowed to go to ANY other country including India or ANY other place,save with proof they are not infected.
I expect there are many ways qualified personnel can assure that condition..
Effectively following your sage advice to isolate them till its acceptable to do otherwise.
Isolation ,in place ,in their home country should not be nearly as expensive as cleaning up the subsequent disaster.
Shooting them all is ,perhaps,excessive but thats just an opinion.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@grand-vizier

cc:
@juliaw
@coffeaddict
@saibabo
@policysigh

Gary,

I may have a bad temper but the “shooting” referred to infected cows not people. :-)

The basic legal problem in the USA is the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. It is going to become a problem to isolate somebody since it will be opposed as illegal detention without due process and the person suspected of being infected will be entitled to bail pending due process. The said hearing will probably be set for a date about 90 days after the person is either dead or shown to be not infected at the time – but waiting on the hearing Typhoid Mary would be free to spread and share the surprise.

In this issue it is going to be every man for himself. A persons only protection will be his own preparations.

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Moselle Timless @mosellegold

@grand-vizier

@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@policysigh

So I guess noone will say that Ebola & AIDs are a man made disease with a artificial origin behind it also made up by man.

Once people include this in there so called theories then you will have a better idea and where to go with this. Point is if they lie about the origin of these diseases then what makes anyone think they will not lie about the seriousness of the outbreak. Ive also watched the live coverage on ABC. The Committee had great questions for the Health blobs but which health blob actually gave an actual answer?

There not going to incriminate there selves nor set them selves up for more questioning. Lets not forget the fact that the session was timed so they spoke with alot of “fillers.”

hey they lied to use about spying on our own citizens, this is no different. Just another cash cow that delivers dead bodies (shrugs)

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Gary @grand-vizier

@peter-t-burke
I rather suspected you were referring to cows but the straight line was just too juicy to pass up!
I don’t agree that refusing travel from African countries is a violation of the constitution, which I don’t think applies to foreign nationals in any case,but I am certain will draw fire for the circles who disagree with that position.
The blabbering class will still be talking when this crisis blows out,no matter how long it takes or how it turns out.
Surly there must need to be a few summits in Geneva or Paris or wherever the food is great,hotels are five star and wine flows freely.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@grand-vizier

cc:
@mosellegold
@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@policysigh

Text of the 14th,

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;
-> nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.<-

Yup it does apply to foreign nationals including illegals. This just went to a Federal Appeals Court and they of course again upheld the simple fact that any person regardless of citizenship or the the lack thereof, is entitled to the full protection of the US Constitution and all of the subordinate laws that flow from the US Constitution.

The 13th, 14th, and 15th will be the undoing of the USA.

Moselle: Who cares who lies about what? Who cares how the diseases began? The first case was in 1976 and the disease is named for the Ebola River in the area where the first cases were confirmed (Nzara, South Sudan).
Naturally there will be a significant contingent of people who will insist that the disease was manufactured by Americans and it was a racist plot to enslave people. Ok, so what? If it was or it wasn't won't change anybody's mind – they will hear and believe what they want to hear and believe.
The vast majority of people cannot be taught anything they don't already know.

When I was in Liberia I had occasion to go to other countries such as Sierra Leone. I am of the opinion that the US should withdraw all activities from all of the African continent and let nature take its course. We can deal with the survivors.
The US and more specifically for me, Texas should not be involved in the various affairs of people where we are not wanted. Ruwanda, DRC, Liberia, Zimbabwe, Uganda, and all the rest of the diseases, civil wars, and internal problems have a right to solve their own problems with out our interference or money.

Why should the US continue to take abuse from the people we are trying to help? If they don't want our cattle feed, medicines, technology, our assistance – we should pack everything up and head home.

Ebola was traced to fruit bats which harbor the disease currently. It affects humans and great apes. It is silly to assert that something that is not understand is easily explained by claiming it is the result of some man with evil intentions.

Do you have any experience with travel on the African continent and the various cultural conditions that exist there? If you do I am sure that your descriptions of the life in the various areas of Africa that you might be familiar with will be welcomed by all – I know I would be very interested.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@grand-vizier

cc:
@mosellegold
@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@policysigh

Doe anybody know why ” @coffeaddict” and “@saibabo” are blacked out instead of red?

Does that have some sinister significance of an evil plot to exclude them from participation?

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Moselle Timless @mosellegold

@peter-t-burke
@grand-vizier
@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@policysigh

1976 you say? Bats guano you say? I havent taken any cultures from bats but I do know alot of others who have taken cultures from fruit bats for many other reasons and uses and never once got infected with Ebola. I dont want to get off subject here. But 50 years earlier in 1920 during the Prohibition period 10,000 people were killed by drinking beer. So to no surprise that they would try something else decades later.

I assume were all on the same land but only people with a beautiful veil over there eyes will believe that there home can not do harm. Jamaica slapped U.S. hand away because they know we are hypocrites. Everyone knows that once your in Americas pockets, once you borrow or ask for help the hammer comes down later. And I do believe that this is what comes to light at the end of this tunnel. For other countries to panic and run to the power house and the US expected that. We are the only country that stick our noses in doors where it doesnt belong. Ebola is a chess move and there will be more to follow. There seven moves ahead.

Schools in Texas including Ohio has been closed today for fear of outbreak since students and others were traveling on the same flight as the infected nurse who was recently diagnosed with Ebola. So I still stand stating it is a major deal.

newly updated news http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-ebola-white-house-aids-203939155.html

PS there names are probably blacked out because they either opted out of this forum or no longer members on the site

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@mosellegold

cc:
@grand-vizier
@juliaw
@peter-t-burke
@policysigh

Moselle,

Thank you! I am greatly relieved to know that there is no reason to be concerned about Ebola now that I know you know people who have not become infected by the guano from fruit bats.

I am curious to know though what brand of beer did the 10,000 dead beer drinkers consume and how fast did this new dastardly contagion devastate the beer drinkers of the world?

When did the Land of Ganja ever get a chance to beat down the US?

By the way, Ohio is not included in Texas. Ohio is a separate state from Texas.

The 8,000 plus schools in Texas did not close yesterday due to Ebola, but most of them are closed today because it is Saturday.

What country are you from?

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