The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.
The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.

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Coffee Addict @coffeeaddict

@jlriggs57aol-com VERY interesting article I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for the education on this controversially titled program.

My personal opinion on it is that I think in this day and age, our government needs to prioritize the illegal aliens that truly cause a threat. For example, I believe terrorists are able to get into this country because of our lax border policies. I am not so concerned about the hard working individuals that come here looking for work. In fact, our country’s first inhabitants were immigrants coming to the United States for better opportunities.

I think that competition within the labor force is a good thing. If people are willing to do the job for less, then they deserve the job. They are willing to work harder for it. This kind of thinking come into question when you consider our minimum wage laws and cost of living. But obviously some individuals are able to come here and work and live on these lower, below legal wages, and survive. It must even be a better option for them than where they came from so is it really that bad in perspective?

I think the problem is that the American labor force doesn’t want to work, and they don’t want to work for low wages. They can make more money sitting on unemployment than they can actually working, so why work? We are creating a dependency, and an entitlement that cannot be solved by forcing illegal immigrants to leave.

If we kick out, and round up all the illegal immigrants I do not think Americans will fill lose jobs. I think people will continue to sit on unemployment, and we will cause a seriously problem within some industries that rely on this labor.

Regarding your comments on Mexico and guns, you hit the nail on the head. Although I think the poor education and corruption also plays a part in Mexico. If citizens tried to revolt they would be fighting with sticks and stones, they would be completely unorganized, and in the beginning if the government or cartels got wind of it they would be eliminated. The cartels, and the politicians like things the way they are in Mexico because they profit and live great lives while their poorest are essentially free labor.

Did you see this statement by the President of Mexico calling for more lax policies on immigration to the US. Saying that the US is unjust for trying to close their borders and deport illegal aliens? To me this is absolutely ridiculous, as you mentioned their policies are nowhere near as fair as the United States laws on immigration, gun control, and literally every other aspect. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-mexico-usa-idUSBREA1Q27H20140227

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@coffeeaddict

Coffee, I don’t think we should be worrying about who will fill the jobs that those who are here illegally are doing. Maybe that could be something to address somewhere down the road, but for right now we need to send a message loud and clear that we are not going to allow this to continue. The first thing we need to do is send those that are here illegally back to their countries of origin, including their spouses and anchor babies. After this has been accomplished and we have TRULY secured our borders, then, and only then should we look at how many we want to allow into our country. Anyone who had been thrown out because they were illegally here and their children should not be allowed back, period.

What ever problems the people of Mexico have, are just that, the problems of the Mexicans, let them take care of those problems. We need to stay out of it.

Why should we show favoritism to a 3rd world country just because they border us? Why not fly in millions from other 3rd world countries from around the globe and let them work and live here and take over our language and government hand-outs?

People are looking at this cross-eyed with their heads tilted sideways just because they border us. What if thousands of cargo planes started landing on U.S. soil and were dumping out refugees from all the 3rd world countries?

It doesn’t surprise me what the Mexican president had to say. The more people he can get out of there less he has to worry about attacking him in case of a revolt. Think about it 11 million less peasants to attack el presidente.

I feel sorry for the people of Mexico. I also feel sorry for the people of Syria and the people of Ethiopia, Somalia, Tanzania, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, and all the rest of them. But we can not take care of the world. We have to get our country back, first.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@coffeeaddict
@jlriggs57aol-com

It has been a long and crappy week as I prepare a lawsuit against the trucking company whose truck and driver hit my Suburban. The only really bright spot came when I read this posting and the comments – I really do appreciate the laughs.

I lived and worked in Mexico for years. I centered my activities in Zacatecas which is about two hours north of Guadalajara in Jalisco.

You should re-read this entire thread and then think carefully about what is said.

The image of a Mexican family huddled around their flea-bitten dog sharing two frijoles and a tortilla between all fourteen kids as Papa stands by dressed in white cotton clothes and sandals clutching his straw sombrero in his hands while Maria, his wife looks on bravely struggling to put on a smile for the Gringo with the camera is just too funny.

You do realize that the poor don’t live in Mexico, don’t you? Who do you think moved north and now live in Chicago, Los Angeles and every other major city in the US?

Unemployment in Mexico is currently around 4% which is considerably better than the US. If unemployment in the US was counted the same way it is counted in Mexico, US unemployment would currently be around 18-20%

Here is a link to a graphic that will support that – http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SL.UEM.TOTL.ZS

The population of Mexico is 120 million – there are about 20 million illegal aliens in the US and about 50% (10 million) of them are from Mexico. Those 10 million illegals are the people who would be Mexico’s unemployed – maybe.

Mexico solved it’s unemployment problem by encouraging the excess workers and the habitually unemployed to move to the US where they can get free food, money, a place to live, medical care, and they can work for cash to send back to their extended family in Mexico.

Here is a current (Feb 2014) article about the amount of money (21 billion dollars annually) the Mexicans living in the US send home to Mexico – http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/migrants-sent-less-money-back-to-mexico-in-2013/

Thanks for the entertainment! By the way just in case the response is that the poor people in Mexico are all hiding under a cactus in a part of Mexico I haven’t been to – I have visited each and every one of the 31 States in Mexico and the Federal District. I put 150,000 miles on my Suburban driving around in Mexico over the past 7 years.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke
@coffeeaddict

Peter, personally I could care less if Mexico has a surplus of jobs or if the poorest person there is a millionaire. I honestly don’t give a crap.

The point being that for those who say we can’t get them back to Mexico because there’s just too many of them, is a bunch of bull. We sent them back then and we can send them back now.

Not really sure what their living conditions are, but I am really sure that, at this point, I don’t care. I just want them out of here until we can get our people working and get our economy back into shape. Until that is done they need to stay out and wait until we decide to let some back in LEGALLY.

Illegal is illegal.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com
@coffeeaddict

James,
I agree with you that the illegal aliens should not be here and that they are causing great harm to the US economy.

So… my question is: “How are you proposing to get them to go home?

You can’t just ship ’em to Mexico just because they speak Spanish, or have brown skin, or have black hair. Many of the illegals are from any one of 15 South American countries or from any one of the 7 countries in Central America in addition to Mexico.

What is their incentive to cooperate in helping US authorities to discover what their country of origin is?

Additionally there are thousands of French, Italians, Russians, and other assorted Europeans who enter illegally by way of the US / Mexican border. And then there are all of the people from the various North African countries. And of course there are the assorted Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Viet Namese, and all of the other Asians who move through Mexico to enter the US.

How about the illegals from India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all the rest of the “Stans”?
http://www.newsmax.com/US/India-immigrants-US-Mexico/2013/11/19/id/537570/

Operation Wetback removed around 2,500,000 illegal aliens, mostly Mexican during a period of two years. At that rate, it would take around 10 years to remove just the Mexicans if you could get past all of the legal proceeding and the US governments opposition to removing them. You would need every available bus or plane to move some 25 million illegals to Mexico assuming you could show that they were Mexican citizens.

How much of a lawsuit do you think would result from removing just one native Texas family of Mexicans (who were citizens and whose family were in Texas before Texas was in the US) to Mexico against their will? There are families in Texas who don’t speak English because they don’t have to. The federally funded schools make it clear that it is racist bigotry to make children speak English in the US when tax payer funded bi-lingual teachers are available as an alternative.

I am interested in your view of how the illegals might be
1. identified,
2. gathered up,
3. held pending transport (there are around 30 million of them) and
4. transported out of the US to their country of origin?

Who is going to pay for all of that?

Here is an additional issue:

Constitution of the United States of America
14th Ammendment;

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Please note that this section makes a clear distinction between “citizens” and “any person”.

a) No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;

b) nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

c) nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

By the terms of the US Constitution the illegals are going to be afforded due process of law and equal protection of “the laws”. That means 30 million plus hearings.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

We just do it the same way they did it in 1954. No proof of birth, bye. Child has proof of birth in U.S., but parents don’t, all three, bye, bye.

Some legitimate citizens will get caught up in the whirl wind and it’s a shame, but none the less we need to get them out just as they did back then.

I don’t understand why so many people want to handle this mess with kid gloves. These people are CRIM-IN-ALS, we need to ferret them out in anyway we have to, to eject their criminal butts out of the country.

If it takes 10 years, so be it. If we don’t send a loud and clear message that it will no longer be tolerated, then we can just open the borders and let them all in, they’re coming anyway and we’re doing NOTHING to stop it.

Get as many out as we can, secure the border, then shoot anyone that illegally steps foot on our soil. It won’t take long to get the message out.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com
@coffeeaddict

James,

OK so are you saying you advocate just ignoring the US Constitution? You know, right to due process and all that?

Where would you put them out to? Are you saying we should round up Nigerians and dump them across the border into Mexico? Maybe drop kick the Irish illegals from New York to the Mexican border?

I agree that they are criminals. They have broken US Federal law by the way in which they entered the US. How would you separate the ones who did in fact break the law and the ones who are in the US legitimately but have no proof of birth?

1) How would you keep them from returning and 2) do you think that Mexico would not rightfully ask its trading partners (Russia and China) to help them keep the US from flooding Mexico with non-citizens?

We are talking about 30 million or so illegals from just about every country in the world. Even if they all admitted which was their country of origin do you think we could afford to return 30 million people to all of the countries all over the world where they came from?

My ex-wife was of English/Irish/Scots?French descent. She was as white as cotton but she was born at home in the Catahoula Swamp in Louisiana. She could not get a passport because she could not produce any legal document that showed where she was born. The folks in the Catahoula Swamp have been there since Jean LaFitte and they figured it was nobodies business who their kids were or where they were born.
Despite the lack of year 2014 paperwork her family members served in WWI, WWII, Korean, Viet Nam and several are buried in Veterans cemeteries – but who cares right? No current paper work and out you go?

My family landed in Massachusetts Colony in 1632 – long before there was even a thought about a “United States”. Where would I get drop kicked to by some bigoted anti-Catholic cop?

This is a tough subject but the problem is the absolutely the fault of the United States. The door to the candy shop has been left wide open for years and no effort has been made to protect the rights and assets of the rightful citizens of the United States.

If you leave your wallet and keys on the hood of your car at the mall you probably should expect that if you wait a week or two somebody is going to take them and possibly your car also.

The fix for this problem is going to alter the nature of the United States of America into something that even Leon Trotsky and Che Guevara couldn’t even imagine.

Just think of a US with no due process for “some” of the people who are in the US. How do we identify ethnic Americans?

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

1) By all means we should have constitutional rights including due process, for legal citizens of this country, for those who are here illegally, NO.

2) Return them to their country of origin. Mexico, Ireland, England, Russia, in shackles. That’s how you transport criminals isn’t it?

3) About, do I think we can afford to send them all back. Where do I send my donation, I will send as much as I can, every time I can and there are millions more than just me, who gladly would.

4) You mean to tell me your ex-wife has been here her entire life and can’t get a birth certificate? O.K. if you say so. The fact that her family has a generational link to the country, and I don’t mean 1 or 2 generations, would prove her citizenship. Please tell her that she can easily get a birth certificate from the courthouse in the county where she was born. Many elderly people in the time of my grandparents and before did not have recorded births but were able to get birth certificates the same way. Something tells me you already knew about this.

5) Could not agree with this more: “This is a tough subject but the problem is the absolutely the fault of the United States. The door to the candy shop has been left wide open for years and no effort has been made to protect the rights and assets of the rightful citizens of the United States.” Now is the time to clean house and slam the door shut.

6) 99.9% of all legal citizens will have legitimate birth certificates or a verifiable lineage. The .1% will not, but they can be verified. The rest will not have a legitimate birth certificate or a traceable lineage that can show whether they are or not.

The constitution and due process are for citizens, for the very few who would be questionable, give them the due process.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

First you are incorrect about a Louisiana Courthouse issuing a birth certificate to somebody who was born at home but shows up 30 years later looking for a birth certificate. That just isn’t how it works in any State in the US.

There is nothing in the US law that says that “verifiable lineage” will serve to confirm citizenship. There are ways to get around the issue but it is expensive and unnecessary if you live in such a way that you don’t come into contact with government authorities who are not relatives by either consanguinity or affinity.

The 14th Amendment is a current settled element of “Constitutional rights”. It was written by people with a room temperature IQ and, in my opinion, it was written for personal political power and wealth.

The 14th amendment identifies a class of individuals referred to as “citizens”;
i.e. “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;…” and in the succeeding two clauses of the same sentence proceeds to identify another class of individuals referred to as “persons”.

“…,nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Clearly their intention was to recognize the privileges and immunities of citizens and in the same sentence extend the due process and equal protection of the laws to anybody who happened to be in the jurisdiction by what ever means.

The authors of the 14th amendment recognized the citizenship of the United States and then forbid any State from treating anybody differently based on their citizenship.

So this is entirely a Federal matter and the Federal Rulers have shown over the last 100 years that they have no interest in doing anything about it because the superior controlling Federal documents say:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -..”

So, the unregistered Democrats who just walked in have been protected for the past 100 years.

If you really want to see a real change in your life time start promoting a “Flat Tax with no exemptions” to replace the current “Progressive Tax with hundreds of exemptions” system. If you defund the churches and private colleges by eliminating the tax deduction you will see the issue of illegal immigration dry up pretty quickly.

A flat tax of 10% would require a national ID card (like they have in Mexico) that is also your;
1. drivers license,
2. voter registration,
3. legal status of your right to work
4. proof of current tax status
5. proof of your legal right to be in the US.
6. Public health benefits ID
7. public housing benefits ID
8. Current military service status
9. Qualified ID for hunting, fishing license
10. ID for concealed carry

and all of the hundreds of other things that legitimate US citizens are required to show ID for to prove eligibility for the benefits of government.

I would offer amnesty to all persons in the US illegally for the sole and exclusive purpose of permitting them to return to their country of origin and apply for legal admittance to the US from their country of origin.

I would also provide a travel voucher to any illegal alien who voluntarily surrendered to legal authority to be returned to their country of origin – but I would deduct the cost of that travel voucher from the foreign aid the US gives to that country of origin.

A free ride back to Mexico, free personal photos taken by US Government employees, and the cost gets deducted from the $725,000,000 annually that we give to Mexico as “foreign aid”.

The travel vouchers would only be redeemed at US tax paying taxi, bus, airlines, railroad, ship companies (in good standing).

If you want to return to Tierra Del Fuego to apply for legal entry to the US so you can live the good life in the US without worrying about getting caught – all you have to do is voluntarily surrender at any designated US law enforcement authority, they’ll take your photo for the national family album and fly you home at Argentina’s expense – and US companies will get paid to transport you.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

I have always supported a flat tax, in fact I started a discussion on the topic a while back.

To give citizenship rights to a foreign invader is totally ludicrous. I have to wonder if Germany or Japan had put soldiers on the ground during WWII, would we had to have given them all the rights and privileges provided under Our Constitution? Rights granted under the Geneva Convention I could see. As I am not a scholar of Our Constitution I will accept what you are saying on the subject.

Since I would doubt a flat tax would ever be passed, I don’t know if your resolution to the problem would work, it would be great if it did.

What I have to wonder is how were they able to be so effective in 1954, doing what they did, but we are unable to do the same now. If we have different amendments, could those amendments be reversed?

Doing nothing has gotten us where we are now, if we do what we’ve been doing, which is nothing, then we may as well get ready to turn this country over to foreign invaders and just accept our fate.

Waiting decades more on a solution will seal the fate of this country. We better find a solution and we better find it fast.

What changes can be made if we call a state of national emergency? Maybe that would free us up to take some action. Just because they aren’t wearing uniforms and carrying rifles doesn’t mean we aren’t under attack.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

First: The fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States was adopted July 9, 1868. The authors claimed that it was to “protect” freed slaves who were not citizens. The amendment like most of the amendments made after the original ten were written by some real idiots with not ability at legal craftsmanship. The “citizens” and “people” issue is a trapdoor like the one that on the gallows. The idea was to hang the evil “States Rights 10th amendment” by the wording until dead.

The Fourteen amendment is just another example of the results of a down and dirty quick solution put together by less than honorable politicians.
The consequences of the 14th amendment were predicted then and have come to fruition now.

Second: Operation Wetback was a direct result of the Bracero program which began in 1942. Many of the Braceros simply stayed in the US and Operation Wetback rounded up people who were mainly Braceros who didn’t go back to Mexico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

If there had not been a Bracero Program Operation Wetback would have just been another waste of taxpayers money.

The current problem of illegals is far more serious than the people of the US understand. When I was a kid in the late 1950s the population of the US was expected to maybe reach 200 million by 2000. By 2000 the actual population had reached closer to 300 million.

Birth rates are falling from 25 per 1,000 population to 14 per 1,000 population ( http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html) and the population is steady growing. That means that the increase is not among people born in the USA.
http://www.mnforsustain.org/united_states_population_growth_graph.htm

From 1990 to 2000 the U.S. population grew by 33 million people, while from 2000 to 2010 population grew by 28 million.

The US population has grown from 76 million in 1900 to 319 million in 2010. At a growth rate of 12 to 13 % per decade the population can be expected to increase to 650 million by 2070. A little applied math and you can see that the increase cannot be accounted for by the falling birth rate.

If the US doesn’t get serious about dealing with the issue the best we can hope for would be a serendipitous plague or convenient nuclear war.

As long as people demand what can’t get done, nothing will change.

National emergency? That would allow the government to feed the unregistered Democrats or provide them with telephones but it wouldn’t solve the issue of how many illegals are in the US. Martial law is out of the question ( Ex Parte Milligan 71 U.S. (4 Wall.) 2 (1866) ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Milligan

I know many Spanish speaking people from various countries south of the Texas border. I speak, read, and write Spanish so I frequently get into conversations with them. I know a woman from a country in South America who ran away from home and came to the US with a man she met who promised to get her into the movies in Hollywood. She was abandoned in Michigan. She met a young man from Columbia who was in the US on a Student visa. They got married and moved to Texas where about half of the population speaks their language. She is a cook and he is now a landscaper (read “gardener”). They have 5 kids. They hate the life in the US and desperately want to leave. Their oldest kid is 11. Their kids are all on Medicaid and they do get food stamps but they really want to leave and go home.

The problem? She doesn’t have any papers to show that she belongs in the US and she doesn’t have any papers to prove she has a right to be in her country of origin which is Argentina. He overstayed his student visa so he can’t get papers because if he leaves the US to return to Columbia to get his citizenship validated he can’t re-enter the US.

They can’t get across Mexico because they don’t have any papers for either of them. They will have a problem with each of the countries in Central America because none of them are looking to welcome any illegal aliens in their country either.

They can’t drive to South America because there is no way to get a car across the Darien Gap in Panama. They can’t afford to buy the tickets for two adults and 5 kids to fly to Buenos Aires which would be about $1600 plus the funds to stay somewhere in Buenos Aires – but she doesn’t have papers to prove she has a right to enter Argentina.

In my opinion, the only solution is to induce people to leave voluntarily by making it economically more attractive to leave than to stay and to make it economically attractive for their county of origin to discourage illegal immigration into the US.

Are you aware that just about every country south of Texas has offices of US college and churches that operate to explain to locals how to get into the USA to get a better life for themselves? – without getting caught? And they are supported by tax deductible donations?

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

If the president, and I don’t mean this one, declared a state of emergency, as was done just before WWII, it does open him up to do some things that would not be kosher any other time. Would it be a little shady to do that? Yeah, but no shadier than what our existing pretender in chief is doing.

“Are you aware that just about every country south of Texas has offices of US college and churches that operate to explain to locals how to get into the USA to get a better life for themselves? – without getting caught? And they are supported by tax deductible donations?”

Surprisingly, yes I knew this.

There are always going to be extenuating circumstances to anything someone tries to do, just like the couple you talked about that wants to leave and can’t. We can sort those out as we come to them.

Moving them out and in such a fashion that sends a message must be done. I don’t care about the process, as long as something is done.

I like the idea of using economics to drive them away. Much simpler, but way too time-consuming it could take decades to even make a dent in the situation. By then we could have multiple groups crying to give these criminals amnesty and a “pathway to citizenship.”

As with most things, I don’t have “thee” answer to solve this problem, but doing something is typically better than doing nothing, and something needs to be done and soon.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

I could not find this information in another form, but I figured this would be sufficient for this discussion. This is the forward of a termination of a declared national emergency. Please read the part that has been identified like this {{{{{.

FOREWORD

Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency. In fact, there are now in effect four presidentially-proclaimed states of national emergency: In addition to the national emergency declared by President Roosevelt in 1933, there are also the national emergency proclaimed by President Truman on December 16, 1950, during the Korean conflict, and the states of national emergency declared by President Nixon on March 23, 1970, and August 15, 1971.

These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes.

{{{{Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may:
seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens.}}}}}

With the melting of the cold war–the developing detente with the Soviet Union and China, the stable truce of over 20 years duration between North and South Korea, and the end of U.S. involvement in the war in Indochina-there is no present need for the United States Government to continue to function under emergency conditions.

The Special Committee on the Termination of the National Emergency was created1 to examine the consequences of terminating the declared states of national emergency that now prevail; to recommend what steps the Congress should take to ensure that the termination can be accomplished without adverse effect upon the necessary tasks of governing; and, also, to recommend ways in which the United States can meet future emergency situations with speed and effectiveness but without relinquishment of congressional oversight and control.

In accordance with this mandate, the Special Committee-in conjunction with the Executive branch, expert constitutional authorities, as well as former high officials of this Government-is now engaged.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/war_ep1.html
—————————————————————————————————-

Does any of this part sound like there is any due process involved?

{seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens.}

The president can do a lot of things during a declared state of emergency.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@peter-t-burke

James,
I am aware of the various attempt by US Presidents to seize dictatorial powers – I am also aware of the various terminations of the declared states of emergency.

The issues surround the fact that martial law cannot be declared while civil authorities remain in existence is settled law resulting from several case primarily Ex Parte Milligan.

There are numerous other cases that have restricted Executive power that have been decided since 1972.
Seizure of property without due process of law is settled as a violation of the 4th and 14th amendment.

There have been hundreds of cases that have resulted from the bad faith actions of 20th century Federal Rulers. Today, in the 21st century the swashbuckling expropriation of civil rights is not as easy to accomplish as it was in 1933. Remember that in 1933 the Civil Rights Act of 1866 was considered to be settled law and held sway until the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Teddy Roosevelt invaded Cuba as a publicity stunt which was brought on by the lies and yellow journalism of William Randolph Hurst. His Holiness, The Obama has been trying to create the same political effect regarding Crimea. Today you can see that the US public is no smarter today than they were 100 years ago but the ploy is not working for The Obama because he cannot just command that the Ukraine be invaded to save the people from independence and it’s evils. The USA in 2014 is nothing like the USA in 1914.

A Federal Identity card would put a dent in the issues pretty quickly. Food stamps are a benefit of citizenship but not a condition of due process. The same applied to other cash benefits of the government. Issuing an internal passport (AKA “Federal Identity Card”) and making it the required identification to collect tax funded benefits would not deny due process to any person, but it would deny individual benefits that are paid for by the taxpayers. That would provide an additional economic motive for illegals to repatriate quickly.

So, let me ask you a question: “Assuming that 1 out of 10 illegals ( roughly 3 million people) has been rounded up and the US is about to drop kick them out of the country, where do they get sent to? Does the US just fire up it’s war machine and distribute them to arbitrary places that don’t want them because they are not citizens of where ever the US is trying to dump them?

3 million illegals is more than all of the people (male and female) incarcerated in US Federal, State, County, and municipal jails combined. It would be like emptying every prison and jail in the US – and that would only be one out of ten.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

Mexico is the #3 trading partner of the US. It would probably be a bad idea to dump illegals on the trading partners of the US since it would be a disaster for US business and agriculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States

If I was an illegal I would not tell anybody what my country of origin was.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

It has been a long day again. I am preparing a case file for personal injury and I sent the previous response to myself. It’s a good thing that I am not a responsible party.

Pete

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

Don’t sweat the self notification. A busy person makes mistakes like that.

As to the question what do you do with the illegals from Mexico. Set them at the border facing Mexico and just have them walk back into Mexico, one way or another. We’ll figure out the rest later.

As to the birth certificates for those who were born at home before official records were kept. I sent an email to my home state to get the information on this as I know it can be done. First I will post my email and then the answer.

Birth certificates for the elderly born at home
Inbox
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James Riggs jlriggs57@gmail.com

Mar 16 (1 day ago)

to chwvvrr
My question is: How can someone who was born at home back in the early 1900’s get a birth certificate? Could a person use such things as baptismal, school, military, doctor, church, or work records?
One of my grandparents, who is deceased, was born in the very early 1900’s, as in 1908, I saw his birth certificate after he died and it said that it was issued in the 1950’s. As he was born at home and the fact that it was not a reissue or copy got me curious as to how he was able to get an original birth certificate decades after his birth.

Could you send me a list of the full criteria, as far as acceptable information that an elderly person, who was born at home, could use to get a birth certificate in WV.

I would very much appreciate this information.

Thank you,
James L. Riggs
CH WVVRR cultwvvrr@wv.gov

8:26 AM (10 hours ago)

to me

They issued what were called delayed birth certificates. Basically, the person applied and could use things such as school records, affadavits of older relatives, etc. in order to get the delayed certificate issued.

Those were issued by the Vital Registration office. I’m pasting a link to their website and their paragraph explaining delayed births below. They can probably give you additional information on what sorts of records were acceptable to them.

http://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/hsc/Vital/

Delayed Birth Certificates- The term “delayed file birth records” or “delayed birth certificates” refers to birth records that were placed on file after the length of time designated by Code for the filing of “regular” birth certificates An entirely different process and form is used whereby additional documentation surrounding the events of birth must be gathered as proof of the birth Delayed birth certificates are created only when a birth has not been recorded in the regular manner within the proper time frame. Delayed birth certificates cannot be placed on file for someone who is already deceased Vital Registration has many delayed birth certificates on file for births that occurred BEFORE 1917, when the state office was established, that were placed on file AFTER 1917 If they were not already on file in the county clerks office in the county where the birth occurred However, the bulk of the births that occurred before 1917 are held by county clerk’s Unless the requestor knows with certainty that the record is on file in the state office, it is recommended that those requesting birth certificates for people born before 1917 search the holdings in the county clerk’s office FIRST as they are more likely to have the record on file.

As I said before your ex-wife may be able to get one in the same manner if her state has this same set up.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

I am aware of delayed birth certificate, affidavit of nativity, verification of live birth, along with all the rest of the alternate forms. The point is that while someone is in the process of being rounded up in a sweep, do you think it is going to be practical to stop the sweep and stand around and wait while a suspected alien takes off to go get alternative documentation?

OK, so there are 3 million supposed Mexicans lined up at the Mexican border and the USA is going to push them across – and what do you suppose Mexico is likely to do about the USA dumping people they claim are “Mexicans” into Mexico? You don’t think they will just stand around and watch, do you? Especially in light of the fact that Mexico knows that if they blink the USA will have the other 27 million “Mexicans” at the border – tout de suite. 30 million Mexicans forced back into Mexico would absolutely destroy Mexico’s economy and would only give the entire population of Mexico incentive to rush north to survive. If you think 30 million is a problem just think what 130 million will be like.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

Oops, it sounds like I mixed part of this conversation, I wasn’t talking about the Mexicans as far as the delayed birth certificate, in my last post. Although, if the information was out there they could be working on it now instead of waiting until the last minute. I meant that information for your ex-wife and folks like her. Sorry for the confusion.

You said, ” 30 million Mexicans forced back into Mexico would absolutely destroy Mexico’s economy and would only give the entire population of Mexico incentive to rush north to survive.”

Oh, you mean like they’ve destroyed ours? We secure the border first then send them back.

So you don’t misunderstand, I am not saying that anything you’ve posted is incorrect, except maybe about the delayed birth certificate, you are probably right about most of what you say. I am just spit-balling, I do not have the ultimate answer, however, if we were to do this long enough we would probably come up with a solution.

Here’s the problem, why haven’t those who are more educated on these types of things, all the laws, policies, and legalities, already hammered out all the ins and outs of this situation and come up with a solution?

Why is the U.S. still dealing with this problem? There should have been a solution to this years ago.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

Most traditional US citizens either don’t recognize, or don’t want to recognize that the US is on a 100 year long path to becoming a European-style Authoritarian Socialist Democracy. The “Liberals” and “Conservatives” are just the front and back of the forces who are determined to radically transform the US into a society that is controlled and governed by Social Darwinists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism ).

These Social Darwinists offer up politics and morals in the form of the Liberepublicrat Party where enough of the voting population can find sufficient issues to entertain themselves as the march obediently into a future of voluntary servitude to the Federal Ruling class.

In my experience the vast majority of the people who are engaged in the political and moral discussions in the US, on either side, have never taken the time to read the documents that are the central core of Americanism.

1. The Mayflower Compact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayflower_Compact

2. Articles of Confederation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

3. The Rights of British America (Thomas Jefferson)
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/jeffsumm.asp

4. The Declaration of Independence (Thomas Jefferson)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence

5. To The Inhabitants of America ( Benedict Arnold)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Inhabitants_of_America

6. The Constitution of the United States of America (James Madison)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

I would add:
Discourse on Voluntary Servitude (Etienne de la Boetie, 1548) http://www.constitution.org/la_boetie/serv_vol.htm since it was probably one of the key elements that Thomas Jefferson studied as a kid.

Most people in the US who have been to some sort of school recognize these documents but they have no idea of what they say or why it matters.

A few years ago, His Holiness The Obama made one of his public utterances that are intended to substitute for brilliant speeches. Between the “Um”s and the “Ah”s he basically said that he was going to radically transform the US and described a political system that many of us recognize as the Soviet system from the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.

Even Vladimir Putin laughed and essentially said “Been there, done that, not going back ’cause it didn’t work!”

The US Constitution was enacted (ratified by all concerned) with the first 10 amendments. The first ten were issues that many of the founding fathers believed were essential to the concept and necessarily must be in writing so there is no sudden loss of social recollection whether the concepts were included of not.

After 1787 the changes were mainly politically driven and by the mid 1860s there had been 4 major changes in the form of the 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th amendments which almost no US citizen today has any idea about. Just ask some of your more Conservative friends what the 12th amendment is about – or the 21st or the 27th. There have been 17 major changes to the essential nature of what the United States of America is since the Constitution was ratified in 1787.

I don’t think you could get the folks of 1787 to ratify the Constitution as it exists in 1987.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

I remember about half of these and I grew up in the 60’s, so I doubt they taught any of these after that.

As to your last comment, I would say that it is a very true statement. I would like to see this country taken back to all the freedoms we had in the beginning.

Everybody has a dream, that’s mine. Not that it could ever come true.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,
I have found that the most effective thing I can do is explain how this country was originally set up and then what the changes are and what the effects of those changes are.

Most people are shocked to see the changes that have been made and then I usually hear “Well, that seems stupid to me – why would they make a change like that without thinking it through?

Are you aware that the ACLU only takes case related directly to the Constitution and violations of the first ten amendments? Yet the conservatives all sneer at the only organization that deals with just the original Constitution as ratified in 1787.

Look at the amendment that were ratified after 1900 – 16th, and 17th, and 22nd and you will see the beginning of the road that leads to where we are now.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

Possibly if the schools are returned to the states, more real history can be taught so that future generations understand ALL the things you have been talking about.

As long as our schools are federally run, I doubt much will change, unless it’s for the worse.

First we have to get the country out of the hands of the socialist before we stand much of a chance at anything good in this country.

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