The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.
The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@juliaw

First, lets start with why these jobs are here. They are entry level positions, which basically means that they will always be entry level. These jobs are not now, nor were they ever meant to be a permanent job. These jobs are easy to obtain because they don’t pay much but they give high school and college kids a place to earn a little extra money, while at the same time teaching them the responsibilities of having a job, how to interact with coworkers, and what it’s like to take and follow orders.

Second, I think we should look at who are offering these entry level jobs. There are fast food chains like McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc. Grocery stores, who hire kids to unload trucks, stock shelves, clean up etc. Also there are department stores like Walmart, Target, J.C. Penney’s, etc. All of these places and many, many more hire people who are just coming out of high school, working their way through college and some other, older people who want to supplement their income.

Third, why raising the minimum wage would not benefit anyone especially the workers. I will use McDonald’s as an example. In order for McDonald’s or any other fast food restaurant to survive they have to sell what they have a cheaply as possible, if they raised the minimum wage they would have to do one or several things. They would have to raise the price of their food, which will loose them customers. They would have to cut the number of people who work for them because they couldn’t afford what they are presently hiring, which eliminates jobs, plus adds an extra burden on the workers that are left to do the all the work.

These are just a few reasons why raising the minimum wage isn’t a good thing.

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Kim @kimbalips

I have to agree that the jobs that pay minimum wage are not meant to be permanent. They are meant to be temporary, just for now, jobs.

I started at Dunkin Donuts many moons ago making 3.25 an hour. I struggled to make ends meet, but I went back to school, worked hard (doing so as a single mother I might add), and I am now doing quite well. They are stepping stone jobs (or for supplemental income). If used as such, they work quite well.

Raising the minimum wage would be disastrous for this continually failing economy. We need more jobs, more industry. Raising the minimum wage will also cause ALL wages to be raised. Most wage calculations at larger institutions are scaled. Raising the minimum scale will raise all wages. Sounds great, until you consider the fact that many companies will then have to hire LESS employees. There is only so much money in a budget for wages/salaries. Less jobs is the exact opposite of what this economy needs right now.

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Increasing the minimum wage would discourage potential employers from hiring. With the U.S. economy in shambles. A better way to go is cut the various taxes that are withheld from paychecks. This would allow workers to keep more of what they earn

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw

Let’s say that you have two competing fast food restaurants, both serve burgers, fries and soft drinks. The minimum wage is now 15.00 dollars an hour.

Restaurant A chooses to raise their prices instead of laying off people. Restaurant B lays people off and only raises their prices slightly to make up the difference.

You go into restaurant A and the meal containing a burger, fries, and a drink that used to cost 5.99 is now 11.99 (since the minimum wage would be doubled, I doubled the prices, seemed fair). While at restaurant B the same meal is only 8.99 but the wait time has greatly increased because they don’t have enough workers.

Now comes decision time, do you pay a double price for your meal or do you go across the street to the B restaurant, where you won’t pay as much but you’ll wait and wait and wait.

I honestly think a lot of people would just stop eating at fast food restaurants, it would no longer be cheap nor would it be fast and convenient.

I remember hearing a story on the news about a lady that was protesting because the minimum wage needed to be raised to 15.00 an hour. She was saying that she just couldn’t make enough money at the current minimum wage. She went on to say that she had been working at McDonald’s for 11 years.

She’s been working at McDonald’s for 11 years and she’s not a store or regional manager
by now? What kind of worker is she that she has been there 11 years and has not gotten even one promotion. We’re not talking about a factory or business that has little or no employee turnover, this is McDonald’s, they are continuously changing employees like a revolving door. The reason is because people use these jobs as stepping stones to real employment or to help them earn money for college, or to subsidize their retirement.

Generally, people change and grow, if not, they stagnate and stay in a rut. For people to make an entry level job their career is ridiculous. They have allowed themselves to become stagnate.

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Damien Christian @djc91ua

@juliaw I completely agree that minimum wage is not enough to prosper in most parts of America. However, I believe that people have to use their talent and skills to work up the ladder. I believe people should be given more opportunities to have better paying jobs rather than just make more money on lower paying jobs. People everywhere need to take advantage of skills, education, talents, opportunities, logic, connections, relationships, and experiences to succeed.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua

Right again, my friend. The idea shouldn’t be to raise the pay of entry-level jobs, the idea should be to motivate people to work and learn what it takes to move up the ladder, if not where they start, then somewhere else.

We can’t grow jobs by hindering business. That’s what’s been happening and that’s why we need to get this country back on track and stop pandering to the gimmies.

I will repeat what I have said many times before. You can’t tell people that the government will provide everything they need or desire, then expect them to be motivated to being self-reliant or self-sufficient.

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Two Cents @twocents

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@Jlriggs57aol-com

This is Walmart’s response:

Thoughts?

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents

Now wait a minute, are they trying to say that if you get an entry-level job you don’t have to stay in it for 11 years or more?

Maybe if you have one of these jobs, but you show up on time, work hard, learn as you go, have a good attitude, and care about what you’re doing, that you can advance beyond the entry-level position.

I don’t know, it sounds too good to be true.

Thanks for the video, I think it shows that even at Wal-Mart there are opportunities to grow and I will give you that not all places have these opportunities, local grocery or convenience stores, etc. may not have them but they are out there if you look.

@juliaw, as you know, from another topic you and I were on, that I started out shining shoes at 9 years old on the various Army posts I lived near, then went on to mow grass, working in gas stations, etc. I got into construction, worked in it for years on my tools and am now a Safety Manager for construction. Here’s the kicker, my education stops with a GED.

I am not saying this for reasons of bragging, as a matter of fact I’m a little embarrassed about it. The point is that anyone can achieve and better themselves if they want it bad enough. To take an entry-level job and then settle into it for the rest of a person’s life is a kind of lazy I will never understand and to be honest they haven’t earned the right to move forward.

This is not rocket science. Work hard, strive, listen and learn, be responsible, and show some initiative. The minimum wage doesn’t need to be raised. The work ethic of these people does.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@juliaw

Julia, those who are for raising the minimum wage did not join in on your discussion. You and the rest of us lost out because of it.

This site only works if opposing view points are given. It’s a shame that all we got was from those against raising the minimum wage.

Where is the learning in a discussion when everyone agrees.

I hope you get a better response with your next topic.

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@djc91ua
@twocents
@jid722
@kimbalips

@jlriggs57aol-com to your first comment, I agree that these are entry level positions and should be a stepping stone to higher positions. Although, when you have a job market as we do in America today, where people are struggling to even find these entry level positions, these jobs are becoming permanent for more and more Americans. And they do not offer enough money or benefits to support a family. Also, you said that these large corporations would have to raise prices in order to pay for people, or fire workers. I disagree, just in the last financial quarter McDonalds ranked in more than 1.5 Billion in PROFITS, which is up 5% from what they made last quarter. Surely, they could afford to pay their workers a bit more.

To Kim’s point, I disagree that raising the minimum wage would hurt the economy. I think it would help it. To explain, people with these minimum wage jobs would have more money to invest into either leisure time, buying goods and services, invest in their education, or perhaps even in their own business. This would be good for the economy. Your giving people money to spend through consumerism. Most of these big companies that employee low wage workers are making money off of the same people they employee so it will become circular. Companies, local business, etc will have more customers. Mass consumerism is what runs this world anyway, and the masses are the people at these low level positions so if you want to improve the economy give these people more money.

Michael, I agree they need more money. But you cannot cut taxes because these people already pay very low taxes if any at all. And on top of that, conservatives would never allow it. They already think its unfair that these individuals dont have to pay a higher percentage. Another reason is that we actually do need money for roads, schools, and basic public services, oh and OF COURSE the Military! So we cant cut taxes, employers need to pay more.

Damien, I agree with what you said but I believe raising the minimum wage is not only moral, but it will stimulate the economy.

Two cents, that commercial is a bunch of BS. Walmart is doing a campaign to save face. Dont be fooled.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@djc91ua
@twocents
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw

Note this article is from 2005. Things are not always what we think.

http://www.yousigma.com/benchmarking/walmartsemployeeretentionprogram.html

Corporations have this bad habit, if they make 1.5 billion in profits one year they aren’t going to settle for 1.4 billion the next year. If you think they will double their burger flippers wages and just take the loss, you don’t know too much about business.

The job market being what it is, gives companies more of an incentive NOT to raise wages. If you don’t like your job, if you don’t like your wages, just start complaining. In this economy you’ll be replaced in about 5.2 seconds. You have to remember when the economy is low there are lots of people looking for a job.

It might not seem fair but that’s the way it works.

They will not lose money. They will reduce their number of employees or raise the price of their food.

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TKList @tklist

@juliaw

There is no such thing as a living wage, there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay.

You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have the government tailor your wage around your living.

It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.

It is not about what people deserve, it is about what the market will bare.

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Christopher Harris @chrstphr1961

Thirty years ago when minimum wage was around $3 an hour, department stores employed high school and college students in floor/cashier positions and employed a lot of them. You could go shopping any time of year and find short lines and lots of registers open.

Twenty years ago, when I moved to this little town of 300 people, the local grocery store employed at least a dozen high school students. All three checkout lanes were always open and every lane had a cashier and a carry out.

Back then minimum wage jobs were starter jobs, held mainly by young people getting their foot in the door.

Now, minimum wage is so high already, that those high school starter jobs have all but disappeared.

Our local market now employs one cashier, one carry out, and one manager. Go to a department store these days and look at the registers that aren’t in use, or worse yet, those annoying self check-outs.

I am amused that my liberal friends on Facebook who frequently post about the need for a higher minimum wage, also frequently post complaints about the long lines at Wal-Mart. Well you know what? You can’t have it both ways people!

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Jack @jack

@lriggs57aol-com

It is interesting you brought up the argument that it is mostly kids who work minimum wage jobs, as that isn’t the truth today. Only about 30% of workers who make minimum wage are teenagers.

@juliaw
I completely agree with you that an increase in the minimum wage would stimulate the economy. Your logic makes perfect sense to me.

@chrstphr1961

You say that the minimum wage is too high, but you don’t realize that the $3/hr minimum wage could buy what $8.50 would buy today. So to continue your real logic, if we raise the minimum wage, more jobs would be created.

Overall-
The government cannot afford to be paying these minimum wage workers in welfare and food-stamps. It isn’t their job to pay the workers, but if no one else will, they are left with the tab. It is time for the corporations to step up and do what they should already they should be doing.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@djc91ua
@twocents
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@jack

I didn’t say, “it is mostly kids who work minimum wage jobs.”

What I did say was, “First, lets start with why these jobs are here. They are entry-level positions, which basically means that they will always be entry-level. These jobs are not now, nor were they ever meant to be a permanent job. These jobs are easy to obtain because they don’t pay much but they give high school and college kids a place to earn a little extra money, while at the same time teaching them the responsibilities of having a job, how to interact with coworkers, and what it’s like to take and follow orders.”

This is exactly why these are entry-level jobs, they are not designed for middle-aged people to earn their living with, no more than washing cars or shoveling snowy drive-ways are intended to earn a living wage. I know with economy what it is more and more older people have to take such jobs, but they are still not intended for that.

Jack I would never imply, except by accident, that the majority of these workers are mostly kids, unless I had statistical proof of it. If you want to admonish me for something I DID say that’s fine, I’m a big boy I can take it, but please don’t call me out on something I never said.

Thanks.

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Jack @jack

@jlriggs57aol-com

While these jobs were intended to be entry level positions, that simply isn’t the case anymore. People are having to work these entry level jobs to make their living, due to the poor state of our economy.

My logic for raising the minimum wage is simple- there is a point where one doesn’t make enough money to survive in America. The Bureau of Labor estimates this point to be about $20k per year. Minimum Wage pays about $15k per year. Where does the minimum wage worker get that extra $5k, then, if not from their employer? They get it from entitlements (SNAP, welfare, etc). So instead of corporations paying their workers, we have the taxpayers paying the workers. That’s not our job. These workers have to be paid somehow, as we cannot have people working and still starving. People talk about welfare removing the incentive to work. Look at working a minimum wage job- you still need welfare to survive, working or not, so why work? Raising the wage also restores the incentive to work. Ultimately, there are two solutions to this issue-
1.) We can pay the workers with our tax dollars
or
2.) We can raise the minimum wage and force the companies who employ the workers to pay them
Simply put, it isn’t the government’s job to pay workers. It’s the job of the corporations.
Raising the minimum wage simply makes them do their job.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@djc91ua
@twocents
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@jack

I believe @tklist said it as well as it can be said. He said,

{There is no such thing as a living wage, there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay.

You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have the government tailor your wage around your living.

It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.

It is not about what people deserve, it is about what the market will bare.}

——————————————————————————————————————-

You can’t expect 7-11 to pay unskilled labor the same amount as machine shop would pay for a skilled lathe or drill press operator, or Mickey D’s to pay their burger flippers the same as a trained pipefitter or welder, etc.

Mickey D’s , 7-11, etc. hire people with absolutely no skills, give them a couple of days of OJT and they’re pretty much trained. How much advanced skill and knowledge do you have to have to “hold the lettuce”?

As I said before these businesses will either raise their prices, which will lose customers or they will cut their work force accordingly to make up the difference.

If they lose business they will be letting people go anyway, then they will be on the welfare rolls and if they let go of people to make up for the pay then those people will be on the welfare rolls.

I don’t understand why people think that corporations are just going to eat the loss and do nothing about it, it’s just not what corporations do.

If we were talking about a reasonable boost in the minimum wage there might not be much of an impact, as we have had them in the past. We are not talking about a reasonable boost here, we are talking about going from 7.25 an hour to 15.00 an hour, that’s more than double, all at once.

Once again the answer here is not more government involvement, it is less government involvement. Release businesses from the 20 Bazillion government rules and regulations that hinder business growth, so they can thrive, which would bring the American job market back and put the teenagers and college kids back in the majority of those who work at these entry-level jobs.

Don’t raise the minimum wage, at least not to this ridiculous level. Restrict governments hold, so that businesses, old and new, can flourish.

Everyone wins, except those who want big government.

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kimberly @ladylibertarian

I don’t see the minimum wage increasing hte living standards for everyone. Realistically speaking, all it will do is raise the price of everything else. So now that you’re making $15 an hour instead of #8, that water bottle you want to buy that used to cost $1.50 now costs over $4.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@djc91ua
@twocents
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@jack

@jlriggs57aol-com

Hey! I’m all for raising the minimum wage. As the minimum wage goes up the number of people on government assistance also goes up in direct proportion because of the reductions in expensive labor by minimum wage employers.

This results in many more people competing for the cash wages that are available for contract labor and results in a buyer’s market i.e. the daily price goes down. At $7.35 plus the employers portion of the Federal taxes (which works out to about $1.65 an hour) a minimum wage worker costs about $9.00 per hour or around $75 a day.

People can get all sorts of help from the very generous government except cash – so the solution is for them to work for daily cash since everything else is provided to someone in their household (food stamps, rent assistance, medicaid, ect.)

I currently offer $40 a day and have no trouble getting workers. Some of them are actually pretty skilled. With the minimum wage at $10 I will be offering $30 a day, but with the minimum wage at $15 an hour I will be offering $25 a day.

I don’t bother with counting the hours, minutes, and seconds in the day. I pay by the job done.

For example I need three oak stumps (16″diameter) dug out. I can do it with a rental bobcat for $240 a day. I know it will take 2 men about 8 hours to dig them out by hand. I offer $ 40 to each man for the job with no discussion of hours. I start at 8:00 so they can get the free breakfast where they are staying and I quit at 4:00 to 4:30 so they can get the free dinner. If they get done sooner I pay them the same amount – $40 each for the job.

I employed two men, got my job done, and saved $160 in costs to get it done. I would have been just as happy to employ three men for the same job if they had a friend who needed the work. My labor relation are in good shape as the various workers see me as a good guy and on their side – and the ones who don’t are free to just not work for me. The workers don’t have to show up tomorrow if they don’t feel like it, so they like the relaxed atmosphere. I have a fairly steady stream on workers who come by to ask if I have some work that needs doing.

It looks to me like the whole minimum wage idea is a failure in the real world but my opinion doesn’t make any difference to the experts who make sure that I have a steady supply of cheap manual labor.

I don’t have to use machinery. There is enough labor becoming available to do things the way they were done 200 years ago and still be cost effective.

Another example – A Challenger tractor (40 row type equipment) costs around $280,000 and can make it possible for one man to disk 1,200 acres by himself. At $40 a day I can put 100 men in the field with cotton hoes for 7 days and get the job done every year for 10 years which is about the life of the Challenger for the machinery cost and that does not count the diesel, and maintenance. The problem is that there just aren’t enough men available – but with minimum wage set at $15 there will be.

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@juliaw

What would you define as modest?

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

@Chris-Gidney I would describe modest as a raise to cover the rising costs of necessities such as food and rent. Just in the last month the prices of produce have risen more than 2%. But wages haven risen. How are people making the least amount of money in America, living on bare necessities supposed to afford to live if the minimum necessities such as food and housing costs are rising and their minimum wage isn’t increasing?

Fast food strikes are going on today. I hope they stick to their guns and get these billion dollar corporations to pay them a little more. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/05/15/fast-food-workers-strike/9114245/

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

Julia, you said: “Just in the last month the prices of produce have risen more than 2%. But wages haven risen.”

I don’t think you meant it the way it sounded, but it sounds like you were trying to say that every time some product or service goes up people should get a raise accordingly.

Even though I don’t think this is what you meant, I do think you have a misconception about mandatory raises doing any good. You seem to feel that if every one got a raise of, let’s say 25%, just to throw out a number, that those who are in business are going to sit back and say, “Gee, I guess we have to lose 25% of our profits”.

It simply doesn’t work that way. They are going to recoup any loss in one way or another. Either they will raise the price of their product to make up the difference or they will lay off enough people to make up the difference, or maybe a little of both.

To illustrate my point, here are excerpts from the link below.

[Four restaurants, including three McDonald’s outlets, will close within the next three weeks on Navy installations, according to Navy Exchange Service Command officials.

And two other contractors — a name-brand sandwich eatery and a name-brand pizza parlor — have asked to be released from their Army and Air Force Exchange Service contracts to operate fast food restaurants at two other installations, according to AAFES officials.

A source with knowledge of military on-base resale operations said the issue likely has to do with two new government regulations — one implemented, one pending — that will affect wages for contract workers in such on-base concessions.

These closings “are the tip of the iceberg,” the source said. “I don’t think anybody has realized what the far-reaching effects of this will be.”]

And.

“At the end of the day, there will be fewer jobs,” said the industry source. “And for [the contractors] who stick it out, there will be higher costs and the customers will pay more.”

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140317/NEWS/303170027/Some-fast-food-outlets-closing-military-bases

Companies are in business to make a profit. They will make a profit or they will simply close down. Why stay in business if you’re not profitable?

You also said: “Fast food strikes are going on today. I hope they stick to their guns and get these billion dollar corporations to pay them a little more.”

You may be unwittingly hoping for a lot of them to be unemployed.

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TKList @tklist

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

@Chris-Gidney

You do not go to the government and demand they put a gun to a business owner’s head to pay you more
.
What you should do: apply for a job at the business that is paying more, even if you have to move to another state.

Use your head and your feet not your senator or representative.

It is not about what people deserve or what is fair or what is just; it is about what the market will bear. Blame the consumer for shopping for the lowest price and blame the voter for voting for government to fix their problems.

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Jack @jack

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961

@tklist

Government is the institution people have created to solve societal issues. Voting for government to help fix your problems is the very reason we vote, and why the government is there.

For those against raising the minimum wage, what do you suggest we do for these people? They’re working an honest ( usually more than honest) day when you take hours and timeframes into account.

What we can’t have is people working long hours every day and still starving.

In the richest nation on earth, that is an unacceptable outcome to a situation that shouldn’t even be happening.

I imagine welfare is looking pretty enticing to those making minimum wage right now. Here is where we decide who pays these workers.

Will it be the American people (through the government) ? Or will it be the corporations (whose job it is anyway)?

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TKList @tklist

@jack
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961

Cronyism, the Tax Code, excessive regulations, the national debt and the Federal Reserve are the major causes of the widening income inequality gap.

Solutions:

Abolish Tax Code and IRS

Enact Fair Tax (national sales tax)

Minimize regulations to only what is absolutely necessary.

Balance the budget.

Start decreasing the national debt.

Abolish the Federal Reserve as we know it. Replace with automated system as Milton Friedman suggested until better solution is discovered.

Allow gold and silver as legal tender.

The income inequality problem is counterintuitive. Big government equals more income inequality. Smaller government equals less income inequality.

The middle class is the byproduct of a free market economy; it is not manufactured by a politician’s tax gimmicks, minimum wage laws, or government redistribution of wealth.

There is no such thing as a living wage; there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay. You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have government tailor your wage around your living.

It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.

“Government is the institution people have created to solve societal issues. Voting for government to help fix your problems is the very reason we vote, and why the government is there.”

You need to read the Constitution.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jack
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961
@tklist

TK, could not agree more. I wish more people would understand this.

Jack,

(1) You said: “Government is the institution people have created to solve societal issues.” Uh, no, the federal government was not created to solve societal problems. The federal government was formed for the defense of our country from enemies, foreign and domestic, and to be a governing body for the protection of our rights as laid down in Our Bill of Rights. Having said that, its responsibilities have expanded due to things like our interstate system, international airports, and the maintaining of our military, originally we had militias.

Nowhere in Our Constitution or Our Bill of Rights does it say that the federal government is to insure every citizen has a job, how much they make, provide them with a house, and so on.

(2) I do not vote so the government will fix my problem, I am responsible for myself. I vote to have representation in D.C., so the thieves can’t arbitrarily raise my taxes whenever they take a notion.

(3) Then you said, “For those against raising the minimum wage, what do you suggest we do for these people?”

TK gave you the answer to that.

“What you should do: apply for a job at the business that is paying more, even if you have to move to another state.

Use your head and your feet not your senator or representative.”

You may not like this answer, but the truth is, no one owes anyone a living. If a person wants a better life, they should be willing to do whatever it takes to legally achieve that goal.

The lady in the news that started this outcry for a raise to minimum wage works at McDonald’s. At the time, she had worked at McDonald’s for 11 years and was still working at minimum wage. Think about this, she had been there for 11 years and never got a single raise, what kind of worker is she, a poor one I would imagine. What are the reasons she never got a raise? Did she come to work on time, willing to work, good attitude, willing to learn, team player, and all the other things that make a good employee.
In 11 years she never, ever, had an opportunity to get a better job? Really? How hard was SHE trying to improve HER own situation.

(3) Next you said: “What we can’t have is people working long hours every day and still starving.

In the richest nation on earth, that is an unacceptable outcome to a situation that shouldn’t even be happening.”

It’s called living within your means. I have worked many minimum wage jobs when I first started working and a couple after I got married (I married young). My wife and I both lived off of my paycheck (we’re old school). We lived in a cheap apartment, drove a very used car, hardly ever went out, but we ate every day, sometimes it was just boiled hotdogs, but we ate.

We lived within the income I was bringing in, there was no “extra” money. As time went on I applied for better paying jobs, got them, and took care of them when I got them. Life got better for us each time I took a step up. We were married nearly 15 years before we could afford our first new car. (It was the lowest priced one we could find.)

I expected no one to take care of us, provide for us, or fight for a higher wage for me. It’s called being self-sufficient, setting a goal and working toward that goal.

(4) Finally, you said: “Will it be the American people (through the government) ? Or will it be the corporations (whose job it is anyway)?”

First of all, the government is the reason we’re in this mess to begin with, if they would leave business alone and let them thrive we would have a broader market of jobs to pick from, moving up in position, and making more money.

Who’s job is it to create a better life? It is up to the individual to make their own success or failure.

We do not need the government to solve our problems. We need to start taking responsibility for ourselves and tell the government to stay out of our lives.

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Jack @jack

@jlriggs57aol-com

Defense and the role of governing body are societal issues (things required for the upkeep of society).

Being responsible for yourself and getting help for problems are not mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, you cannot really live with in the means of minimum wage.
(http://money.msn.com/saving-money-tips/post.aspx?post=18f3ade2-e4dc-49d3-83ed-3834a3d848cb)

The “get a better job” solution to the plight of the working poor is great in theory, but in practice, there isn’t always a better job out there. If that solution worked all the time for all people, I would support it.

What you describe in your 4th point is laissez faire capitalism, which is prevalent during the industrial revolution. Was it good for business? Absolutely. Was it good for the people? Absolutely not. The food was often poisonous, acid literally fell from the sky (acid rain), and workers worked 16 hours per day for a dollar. The Jungle by Upton Sinclair will tell you more about the “benefits” of laissez faire capitalism.

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TKList @tklist

@jack
@jlriggs57aol-com

Why is it that people on left see big corporations as a evil but believe big government is an angel?

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Jack @jack

@tklist

A good question with a simple answer.

I have a say in government. Simple as that.

I don’t have a say in the actions of corporations (unless I buy a huge amount of stock, and then I’ll have only a small seat at the table).

Something with as much money as a corporation controlled by a finite group of people who’s actions I have no say in is not going to garner my trust.

I’ll ask the opposite question to you:
Why is it that people on the right see government as an evil, but big corporations as angels?

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@tklist

@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@jlriggs57aol-com
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@Chris-Gidney

OK – a general response to all. I own a business;

When the Secretary/Receptionist demanded a pay increase I fired her and contracted with an office service out of Mexico that answers the phone and forwards the calls, bought Microsoft Office Pro and hired a woman who had just finished at a local junior college to do the typing.

When the bookkeeper decided she wasn’t living as she liked on what I was paying, she told me that I would have to raise her pay or she would quit and go to work for another firm.
So I fired her, bought NeatReceipts, and hired a girl just out of the local High School to scan the documents needed for the accountant.

When the cost of the physical office went up I moved entirely to a Regus Office Suite that is available for scheduled use on a monthly basis. It comes complete with amenities that I wanted, but didn’t want to pay for, when I had the regular office. ( http://www.regus.com/ ) That cut costs by more than 40%.

When a client becomes too expensive to service due to what I consider excessive demands for attention and service I just return their files and property and part company with them.

When the hands on the ranch came at me about paying a higher wage I fired everybody and went to the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles and hired ex-convicts who were on active supervised parole. I provided a wage and a bunk house that they were charged a minimal amount to live in. It cut my labor cost by 30%.

There is nothing in this country that stops any of the people who worked for me from going out and starting their own business. That is what I did.

I invest money in businesses ( Ford, GE, AT&T, etc.) as a stockholder in order to make a profit. The corporate management team works for me the stockholder not you the customer. If the management team does not produce a satisfactory return ( growth of the stock price and or dividends) by satisfying the customer with quality and advantageous pricing, I can either sell out or vote to remove the management team at the next stockholders meeting and put in a new management team.

My money (not yours and not the government’s) is at risk. If the return is not satisfactory due to labor being a larger share of overhead than I believe is necessary, I can move the money to companies in other countries or I can just convert it to gold and sit on it until the economic conditions change.

A minimum wage means that a person who is hungry does not have the right to sell his labor for what ever he can get at the moment. There was a time when I was happy to get 1/2 of minimum wage to unload trucks because it was that or nothing – they had forklifts.

So… I don’t buy stock in fast food companies like Yum Brands, McDonalds, because the return is not sufficient for me to sell my Ford stock to buy any of those (believe it or not the money has to come from somewhere).

In late 2010, 3G Capital of Brazil acquired a majority stake in Burger King in a deal valued at US$3.26 billion. Labor costs and excessive government regulation drove BK to a position where their stock was dropping under the floor. As a result, Burger King, which began life as a Florida company, is now a Brazilian global enterprise. Good for Brazil – bad for the USA.

When you raise the minimum wage you cut my returns (profits) and I take my ball and go home.

If you add more regulation to prevent me from taking my ball and going home, I will just find a way to export my investments to somewhere outside of US jurisdiction – or like I said just buy gold and sit on it. It is my ball and I can always punch a hole in it so nobody can play with it.

Large corporations are a result of investors like me pooling our money and building a way to protect our selves from a pillaging government and a greedy work force.

The workers listen to people who convince them to strike against the hand that pays them. There is an assumption that I will just lie down and take it. I have been knocked down many times by workers who thought it was time to take more of what I had gathered.

I learned a long time ago:
It isn’t how many times you get knocked down that counts – its how many times you get up.

Raising the minimum wage will just make the US economy a less attractive place to risk my money than it already is.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jack
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961
@tklist

Jack, I love the image of poisonous food and acid rain. Nowhere did I ever say that we should do away with the EPA or the FDA, the folks that keep these kinds of things from happening. Although I would like to see them shrink and for them to use a little common sense.

So what you’re saying is that if the government continues to stymie business things will be better for our citizens. Fewer jobs at higher pay. I take it that you’re also saying is that if you allow business to thrive and they are all jockeying to get more, better, or higher educated workers, they would not offer to pay more money to attract the kind of people they need for their business.

Sorry Jack, I just don’t see the logic in that.

The one thing I will agree with you on is the fact that getting a better job in this economy isn’t likely for the bulk of the population at this time and therein lies the problem. The government has got a choke hold on business where they can’t grow and new business aren’t being created. I will say what I said before, if you want more people to be working and earning more, allow business to thrive, not completely unchecked but with a whole lot fewer restrictions and taxes they are dealing with now.

TK, business nor government are perfect in my book. However, I would rather see business grown, more than I would the government.

Businesses are no angels, but no government, anywhere, is benevolent.

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Jack @jack

@jlriggs57aol-com

When left to their own devices, businesses will pay workers the lowest possible amount possible for their services. It’s only logical; Lower Wages = Lower Costs = More Profit. More Profit = More Investors (looking to get a piece of a bigger dividend) , or higher pay for the business owner, depending on if the business is privately owned or publicly traded.

I’m sure that the CEO of McDonald’s would love to

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Jack @jack

I apologize for that last post, I am working on my phone and accidentally hit post prematurely.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@jack

Jack you’re sure not going to get me to argue about any of that, however I think your missing the point.

In order for a company to turn out any product, of any kind, they need workers to do the labor. If companies A and B are paying the same amount and company B wants to expand and they need more workers to fill the positions and they can’t find anyone, what will they do? They will offer more money, better benefits, or something to draw workers away from company A.

I think what’s confusing this whole thing is that right now we have a huge surplus of workers and serious lack of jobs. What if it were turned around the other way, a surplus of jobs and a serious lack of workers? The only way to get it turned around is to let business thrive and get government the heck out-of-the-way.

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Jack @jack

@jlriggs57aol-com

You’re completely right about what business would do in that situation, but capitalism is comparative.

Following the rule of keeping costs low, that competitive edge is going to be as small as possible.

When companies try to pay as little as possible, and when the advantages over other companies are as small as possible, the pay/benefits are still going to be small, as

Small+Small=Small

Thus an external force (such as government) is required to keep wages higher, so the system can keep going in a way that is beneficial for all.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jack
@jlriggs57aol-com

“Thus an external force (such as government) is required to keep wages higher, so the system can keep going in a way that is beneficial for all.”

In what way does government keep the system going in such a way that is beneficial for me in my business?

The basic deal with labor is you sell your time to a willing buyer. The buyer offers a price and the seller holds out for some other number. A second seller steps up and undercuts the first seller by 25%. The buyer strikes a deal with the second seller and the work begins.

I pick up willing workers on the corner. Some of the men ask “What do we have to do?” while others ask when we will get back, how much they are going to get paid, and other argue about just about any part of the conditions.

I generally tell them to get out of the way because there are 4 or 5 men standing trying to get in the truck. They don’t ask questions, they just get in the truck to do what ever there is to do in exchange for whatever I am paying.
If I don’t pay enough they won’t be back tomorrow because they don’t have to.
If I don’t like the work one of them does I tell him to not get in my truck ever again.

Do you think that If the crowd does not like me, the work, or the money I could go to the corner and find that nobody will get into the truck? Nope! There is always somebody who will do whatever it takes to survive.

I pay cash ever day. So my job is wildly successful and I benefit from it greatly!
What do I owe the people who were paid to do the work?

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TKList @tklist

@jlriggs57aol-com
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961

@jack The simple answer is there are no angels.

Democrats believe that they can somehow pass laws, regulations or policies that would magically make opportunity and earnings more equal without unintended consequence and repercussions in our economic system.

That is almost as bad as someone thinking they can warm interstellar space by rubbing their hands together.

Capitalism: one money hungry greedy evil fat cat equals thousands of people with paychecks.

Socialism: one power hungry greedy politician equals thousands of people without a paycheck.

Politicians tout social programs for their own political gain not for how the results of those programs will affect the financially disadvantaged. This is the truth, just look at the results of these programs.

Politicians promise you a fantasy land, that they can make your life golden by decree. Raise your pay, give you education, health care, retirement, cheap housing, easy credit and protect you from the evils of the greedy businessman.

In reality they can do nothing of the sort. To give you anything they have to take something from you, do not be fooled when they say they will take it from the rich, the rich get it from you, in the end it always comes from you.

Politicians point at the rich guy as they pick your pocket. They are selling you an illusion that does more harm than good, because in the process they disrupt the free flow and balance of the market causing unintended consequences.

Politicians that promise to fix your life by taxing the greedy rich to cover the cost are really the sleaziest of middlemen that are selling you pixie dust while they take their cut, which is power.

Is it easier:
A. For voters to remove a bad politician or law.
or
B. For consumers to remove a bad company?

Answer: B

Much easier to choose a different company than it is to choose a different government.

You get to vote for politicians once every two, four and six years.
You get to vote for business everyday.

Democrats/Liberals: The way they wish things worked.
Republicans/Conservatives: The way they want things to work.
Libertarians: The way things actually work.

Democrats: Little pleasure now, lots of pain latter.
Republicans: Little less pleasure now, lots of pain latter.
Libertartians: Little pain now, lots of pleasure latter.

Remember bad business can only survive with government help.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@peter-t-Burke
@chrstphr1961

Well said TK. I believe the explanation you gave was spot on.

The only problem I had was when you called republicans, conservatives. As we have seen, very few republicans are actually conservatives.

I can call myself a buffalo, but if I am light brown with big white spots and long neck, I am not a buffalo.

Just as a “less liberal” democrat (republican) is not a conservative, they’re still just a another liberal.

I assume you are a libertarian, so I will look past the assumption that libertarians have the correct method. Right now if I had to choose between a libertarian and a liberal, I would say that libertarians rock. (That’s a compliment)

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Ross Bryan @ross-bryan-31

@jlriggs57aol-com

In theory, in a truly free free society employers would be able to negotiate wages with whomever they hire. However good or bad the idea, those days are long gone. Government is now very much in the business of regulating what the minimum wage ought to be – and perhaps that’s not such a bad thing. After all, it’s not hard to envision a scenario without a minimum wage in which employers are able to find “wage slaves” – i.e., masses of poor, unemployed immigrants who are willing to work for as little as three or four dollars an hour ( because somehow that’s still more than they were making back home). And because we also have a safety net in this country, the American tax payer is forced to subsidize the lifestyles of the “poors” even more than we already are.

Furthermore, if we are going to have government in the business of regulating a minimum wage, I’m not so sure it’s moral for Congress to set the rate, then not bother to ever increase it to stay apace with inflation..again leading to a scenario in which society is forced to subsidize the “poors” because their employers aren’t willing to pay more (and not because they’re evil – as many Occupy Wall Street types suggest, but simply because they’re trying to stay competitive with other fast food chains who’re also paying their employees that same low wage).

However, I don’t think it’d be a good idea at the moment for the federal government to impose a new and drastically higher minimum wage on American businesses. Because even though a fast food chain in the North East could easily absorb the higher costs by raising the prices on their menu, other small business in rural America might not be able to do quite as easily.

Personally, I think a better solution might be for these groups – through the spirit of activism – to lobby their state legislators for a higher minimum salary, vs. taking it to Congress.

So, to answer the question: Yes, I support an increase in the minimum wage at the state level (and a modest increase nationally). But $15/hr? Get real!!!

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@ross-bryan-31

Bryan, the way to have no need for a minimum wage and for employers to be able to negotiate with those they hire is to have a surplus of jobs. If we had employers who were lacking in workers he would pay whatever he had to pay to get the workers he/she needed.

Something tells me we could just about see the minimum wage disappear except for those who are lazy or have a substance issue and can’t find work any other way.

The million dollar question is how do we get a surplus of jobs?

Here’s how I would start. Shrink government and let business thrive, but not to the point of harming people, the environment, etc.

I like your second point about business trying to stay competitive. Who wants to buy a $10.00 burger or $6.00 coke.

As far as their wages being low, they are being paid for the amount of skill needed for the job, which in the case of McDonald’s is none. We are not talking about manual and mental skills like a car mechanic, a welder, or a lathe operator. For those who think any of these jobs do not require being educated or that you can hire someone off the street to do these jobs, my advice is to try one of them. The point being is that you shouldn’t expect to make the wages of a trained skilled professional because you have been taught the fine art of putting the cheese on before the pickles when assembling a burger. It just isn’t realistic.

I too would support a modest, state level, increase, 1.00 – 1.50 an hour, just to help out those that go through these entry-level jobs, on their way to bigger and better, somewhere else.

Higher wages should come from having a higher skill or education level, not because you managed to flip burgers for 10 years.

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Jack @jack

jlriggs57aol-com
@ross-bryan-31

I agree that $15/hr is a bit steep for today’s economy. There will come a day when that number is viable due to inflation and rising prices, but today is not that day.

I also agree that it is immoral for raising the minimum wage to be the job of congress, since there it is a matter of political will for the most part; That is why I support S.460, the fair minimum wage act of 2013. It raises the minimum wage to $10.10 through three increases of 95 cents each, and then indexes the wage to inflation, taking the job out of the hands of congress for the most part.

@tklist

Beta.congress.gov

The “sleaziest of middlemen” can be seen through, clear as day, by clicking that link above.

That link leads to the congressional records, where the American people can see exactly what their representative/senator is doing in congress, free of spin, or sugar coating. It’s a pretty cool website, and even has live video of the congress when it is in session.

It is tools like this that allow us to see past the spin of pundits and super PACs.

A tool such as this was mandated in Article I, Section 5 of the Constitution of the United States, and beta.congress.gov is the modern day implementation of that tool.

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Brandon @sverhmashina

There’s plenty to support arguments against a top-down minimum wage, namely being the difficulty for smaller businesses to compensate employees and stay competitive.

What this view confidently ignores is while, yes these jobs *should* be entry-level positions for young people entering the work force for the first time, the reality is these positions are a type of safety net (albeit a shitty one) for the portion of the workforce working in industries more sensitive to boom and busts in the aggregate economy (manufacturing springs to mind).

That being said, nations such as Germany and the nordic countries don’t have a blanket minimum wage and instead have a system of centralized collective bargaining organized on a sector by sector level. While these economies obviously can’t match the output of the US economy, they maintain very high standards of living and happiness with very high levels of productivity.

I’d prefer a more corporatist model to the issue of wage standards in the labour market than the continued exploitation of individual workers competing against each other in the labour market, or the imposing of a wage floor by a government that is largely ignorant to the needs of various industries.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@Chris-Gidney

We had all done some speculating on this topic. Here is what is happening in Seattle, who recently voted to raise their minimum wage to 15.00 an hour. According to the article they haven’t put it in to law yet, this is what is happening before it starts. Just like with obozocare, it sounds good, but in reality, not so much.

Here are a few excerpts.

[In a few weeks, Seattle’s new, highest in the country, $15 per hour minimum wage will go into effect. Like many liberal policies, it was passed by City Hall with the best of intentions. The only problem is, in the end, it may do more harm than good for many.

Private businesses, unlike government entities (which, in theory, can always raise taxes or borrow), must make more than they spend in order to pay the rent, make payroll, keep the lights on, pay their business taxes, and, heaven forbid, have some left over for the owners and investors who are taking the risk and putting in the long hours.

Earlier this month, Seattle Magazine asked, Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately?]

And.

[A spokesman for the Washington Restaurant Association told the Washington Policy Center, “Every [restaurant] operator I’m talking to is in panic mode, trying to figure out what the new world will look like.”

Seattle had a foretaste of the effect of the $15 minimum wage earlier this year when Prop 1, which made a $15 minimum wage for those working in parking garages and hotels near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, took effect. A reporter asked a cleaning woman and a part-time banquet server, who work in a hotel near SEATAC, what they thought of the new law:

The cleaning woman responded, “It sounds good, but it’s not good,”

“Why?” I asked.

“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.

The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.

“What else?” I asked.

“I have to pay for parking,” she said.

I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.

“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/15-minimum-wage-looms-seattle-restaurants-close-doors/

Some of the businesses went ahead and started paying their people the higher wage and the workers are already feeling the pain from it.

I am interested to hear what everyone has to say, but especially those who thought this was going to be a good thing.

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Jay @jay-frustrated

Minimum wage jobs are simply a starting point. They’re where young people learn the value of hard work, social protocols, and gain on-the-job real-world experience. These are entry-level positions. They are not meant to support a family or stay in for the rest of your life. Additionally, businesses will not lose money. That is a simple fact. Therefore, in areas where unions have demanded outrageously high minimum wages one of two things happens. Number one, the employer simply moves. The second option, benefits and/or hours available are cut. In our post-Obama world, corporations have made record amounts of capital. The only ones losing out are the middle-class. Simply put we are becoming poorer and it is directly related to liberal policies.

And what do you think the unintended consequence of raising minimum wage will be? I think people with skills, college degrees, and and advanced training are going to be a little pissed that the person slinging burgers is making the same money they are.

Yes wages need to go up, but not through mandates. They need to be raised for skilled individuals based on a market that’s able to function with constant and suffocating government regulations and taxation. The Gov is the problem, not the solution. Get them out of the way and watch everything straighten itself out.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

CC:
@jay-frustrated
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@Chris-Gidney

Personally, I think that $15 an hour is way too little – it should be a bazillion pesos per hour (or minute which ever is more politically useful). That has worked very well for Argentina. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/argentina/inflation-cpi

The problem is not how much somebody is paid, but the problem is what that payment can buy. The issue for academics is how much somebody receives while for somebody trying to survive, the issue is what that same amount will buy.

My solution is probably never going to come to fruition in Texas but I can always hope.

I am willing to loan homeowners the money to continue after their job evaporates due to the predictable results that the stupid governmental policies that they voted for are going to bring.

I will loan them 75% of the equity value in their home in exchange for a clear deed of trust with a default clause that avoids the bother of foreclosure proceedings. Basically it is en end run around a contract-for-deed. I pay off their mortgage lender and I become the prime mortgage holder in exchange for 25% of the accrued equity value. Texas allows a maximum rate of 18% per annum for personal loans and since it is a purchase and sale under contract-for-deed, not a home-equity loan I can avoid the State and Federal HARP restrictions and other silly impediments to the homeowners pursuit of a joyful life and riches.

Of course when they lose their jobs as a result of the devastating economic policies of the US Federal rulers I will need an eviction crew like I had in 2010-11 after 2008-09.

It is amazing how many people think that it is outrageous that they would be obliged to pay their debts or get off the property.

Even here in Texas the stupid fools voted to remove all of the economic protections that were the results of the 1930s education.

There are three kinds of men;
The one that learns by reading,
The few who learn by observation,
and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

Will Rogers

The Democrats have the support of those who voted for Democrats and the support of those who didn’t vote at all. That makes them the overwhelming majority in the US.

62,615,406 voted Democrat
93,000,000 no vote cast

That is 155 million people who actively voted for the coming disaster.

Get ready ’cause its gonna rain – want to buy (or rent) an umbrella?

It will take some time but it is on the way.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke
@jay-frustrated
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@Chris-Gidney

Jay, good comments, however if Pete hadn’t posted I would never have known you had left a comment. Please copy and paste the @’s as Pete and I have done or no one will receive a notice that a new post was made. Thanks.

Pete, not being versed in economics, I didn’t get a good grasp of what it was saying, however it didn’t look good. Loved the Will Rogers quote, sad but true.

I hope we will get some of those who thought raising the minimum wage to 15.00 dollars an hour to post some comments on the link I provided above. I am interested to hear their thoughts.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

In reality I don’t expect a response to anything anymore. Volkalize is like having a conversation with myself.

Regardless of what I post I don’t get any responses ever since some pansy got his panties in a knot because he wasn’t capable of understanding what I wrote.

Even Julia, who chose to solicit a response from me, does not respond to any response that I make.

I keep hoping I will find a site where there can be some significant exchange of ideas and so I keep looking.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

Sorry to hear that no one seems to be responding to you. All I can tell you is that I have tried to respond to everyone and if I have ever slighted you, I apologize, it wasn’t intentional.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com

James,

I wasn’t implying that you or anybody else slighted me. I was just commenting on the fact of no conversation. If people choose to simply make a statement and then say nothing further in response to a reply that is certainly their privilege.

I was just lamenting the issue that when I joined Volkalize I had high hope for some interesting exchanges – and that has turned out to be just me talking to myself and occasionally, you.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke

Yeah, I know what you mean. I even tried to get something going by starting a discussion on the Boy Scouts signing on a homosexual leader, which they said they would not do, I got one response and it was mostly shaking their finger at me.

I don’t know what’s going on but it seems to have dried up.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@Chris-Gidney

Here is some new information. As I have said, if the minimum wage is raised to 15.00 an hour they will either raise the price of the food or they will get rid of people to make up the difference.

Here is an excerpt from the link below.

{It only makes sense. Why pay an uneducated person with limited skills $15.00 per hour when you can spend a few grand on a couple machines to do the exact same job?

The Left, as usual, remains clueless to the fact that raising the minimum wage will harm more than it will help. Yet, the ignoramuses who continue to support this policy keep bloviating and pandering to anyone who will listen.

If Democrats aren’t the biggest threat to America right now I don’t know what is.}

And.

{Maybe you’ve seen the machines that dispense drinks at your favorite 5 Guys, or the iPad that takes your order at Chili’s and Applebee’s, or the machine that takes your order at Panera Bread.

At McDonald’s, they’ve combined a computerized kiosk with a brand new menu, and it appears to be a big hit around the country:}

http://www.youngcons.com/raising-the-minimum-wage-causes-mcdonalds-to-install-kiosks-ushering-out-workers/

So now instead of many having a job at 8.00 an hour, we will have a few making 15.00 an hour. Way to go liberals you are really helping the working class, by taking away their jobs.

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TKList @tklist

James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-burke

One reasons this site has “dried up” is this comment / ‘volkaliztion” system is one of the worst out there. It is called competition and Volkalize is losing.

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Two Cents @twocents

@jlriggs57aol-com @peter-t-burke @tklist I feel that this conversation dried up because the person who started it, @juliaw kind of lost the debate! LOL!

Plus, this discussion kind of ended when it fell out of the mainstream media. People didn’t seem to care about it anymore. On this site we’ve kind of moved on to other things.

However, I do feel that lately this debate is heating up again. California has a few counties that just raised the minimum wage to $15.00

I think it will be interesting to see what happens to this discussion as we see the effects of raising the minimum wage.

However for now, I do find other topics more interesting on this site.

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TKList @tklist

@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

Here is something to chew on:

Cronyism, the convoluted tax code, excessive regulations, the national debt and the Federal Reserve are the major causes of the widening income inequality gap.

Solutions:
Abolish tax code and IRS.
Enact the Fair Tax.
Minimize regulations to only what is absolutely necessary.
Balance the budget.
Start decreasing the national debt.
Abolish the Federal Reserve, the FDIC and all bank regulations except one; require full disclosure on full or fractional reserve backing of deposits.
Treat gold, silver and cryptocurrencies as legal tender (not as an asset) for tax purposes.

The income inequality problem is counterintuitive. Big government equals more income inequality. Smaller government equals less income inequality.

The middle class is the byproduct of a free market economy; it is not manufactured by a politician’s tax gimmicks, minimum wage laws, or government redistribution of wealth.

There is no such thing as a living wage; there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay. You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have government tailor your wage around your living.

Any increase in the minimum wage would only be a temporary relief to some as jobs, other wages and prices re-balance around the increase. Also it will hurt unskilled workers looking for their first job.

It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.

It is not about what people deserve or what is fair or what is just; it is about what the market will bear. Blame the consumer for shopping for the lowest price and blame the voter for voting for government to fix their problems.

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@twocents in one breath you say I lost the debate. In your next breath you say that California just raised the minimum wage. Looks like I won!

I’m proud that California has counties that want to raise the minimum wage. It’s needed.

Thats considered a win for workers in my book!

@jlriggs57aol-com
@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@tklist something you didn’t consider, is how inflation is not the low wage worker’s fault.

Costs of goods and services keep going up, meanwhile we are making the same amount of money and can’t afford the things we need. They keep going up due to inflation. But we are not receiving wage increases to cover the costs.

That is not our fault. So prices for goods and services that we need to survive go up, so should our income.

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TKList @tklist

@juliaw Inflation caused by the Fed by policy.
Vote for those that want to end the Fed. It is the voters’ fault that we have institutionalized inflation.

If you are concerned about the growing income inequality gap, if you are against war, against the military–industrial complex, against mega-mergers of companies and against invisible taxation, then you are against the Federal Reserve.

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Peter T. Burke @peter-t-burke

@jlriggs57aol-com
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian

Juliaw: if low wage workers don’t cause inflation, what does exactly?

TKlist: you wrote:

Solutions:
Abolish tax code and IRS.
Enact the Fair Tax.
Minimize regulations to only what is absolutely necessary.
Balance the budget.
Start decreasing the national debt.
Abolish the Federal Reserve, the FDIC and all bank regulations except one; require full disclosure on full or fractional reserve backing of deposits.
Treat gold, silver and cryptocurrencies as legal tender (not as an asset) for tax purposes.

How would you expect anyone to answer such a laundry list of “God, we hope none of this happens” issues?

Just to respond to a few;

Abolish tax code and IRS. – so taxes would be arbitrary according to what politicians can get away with? Why would anybody with a tax accountant and a tax attorney want to abolish the tax code?

(“Roast me! Hang me! Do whatever you please,” said Brer Rabbit. “Only please, Brer Fox, please don’t throw me into the briar patch.” )

Enact the Fair Tax. – the “Fair Tax” is only fair to some. I would pay considerably more than I do now. Would I get more than I do now?

Balance the budget. – Why? I love the idea of paying debts with inflated money.

Start decreasing the national debt. Again why? I would rather owe our allies the money than cheat them out of it. They like us because we owe them money – our allies are the best friends money can buy.

Abolish the Federal Reserve, the FDIC and all bank regulations except one; require full disclosure on full or fractional reserve backing of deposits. – I will go along with this one as long as everybody will take my word for the content of the full disclosure.

( “I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’ ”
“But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. “They’ve a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they’re the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!”)

Just think – the words in the disclosure will mean what I choose they mean for as long as I say. After all there will be no regulations in the Briar Patch.

Treat gold, silver and cryptocurrencies as legal tender (not as an asset) for tax purposes.

You probably might want read up on what happened the last time that was done. I could probably survive it but most people wouldn’t – there is no place to expand to.

How about taking it one step at a time so someone can give full attention to a studied response?

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@peter-t-burke
@tklist
@jid722
@kimbalips
@juliaw
@djc91ua
@twocents
@tklist
@chrstphr1961
@jack
@ladylibertarian
@juliaw

Julia, “You won?????”

You may have won something I’m not sure what it was, but if you feel better then go with it.

The workers at Mickey D’s are going to lose, in spades. I will repost my comment above which you must not have read.

{Here is some new information. As I have said, if the minimum wage is raised to 15.00 an hour they will either raise the price of the food or they will get rid of people to make up the difference.

Here is an excerpt from the link below.

{It only makes sense. Why pay an uneducated person with limited skills $15.00 per hour when you can spend a few grand on a couple machines to do the exact same job?

The Left, as usual, remains clueless to the fact that raising the minimum wage will harm more than it will help. Yet, the ignoramuses who continue to support this policy keep bloviating and pandering to anyone who will listen.

If Democrats aren’t the biggest threat to America right now I don’t know what is.}

And.

{Maybe you’ve seen the machines that dispense drinks at your favorite 5 Guys, or the iPad that takes your order at Chili’s and Applebee’s, or the machine that takes your order at Panera Bread.

At McDonald’s, they’ve combined a computerized kiosk with a brand new menu, and it appears to be a big hit around the country:}

http://www.youngcons.com/raising-the-minimum-wage-causes-mcdonalds-to-install-kiosks-ushering-out-workers/

So now instead of many having a job at 8.00 an hour, we will have a few making 15.00 an hour. Way to go liberals you are really helping the working class, by taking away their jobs.}

Your victory is coming in the form of automated kiosks that will take the place of many soon-to-be unemployed workers.

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