The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.
The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.

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Two Cents @twocents

@Kevlar thanks for posting this. It is lengthy, and very informative. I agree with you that we can survive without visiting our national parks for a few days or weeks while our politicians fight for our liberty. The majority of citizens do not want Obamacare and I am proud of Ted Cruz for standing up for us. I think it is ridiculous the Democrats are trying to blame Republicans for shutting down the government. They offered a plan to delay the bill for one year! Obama has delayed portions of the bill 19 times! Whats the big deal? The exchanges are not even prepared.

Anyway thanks for the perspective on the government shutdown. Politicians on the left want panic. Thankfully we can educate ourselves.

September 30, 2013

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@Kevlar @TwoCents: Many people will not be able to go to work today, and they will not receive a paycheck for their work if they are able to go to work. Government employees will not get paid. People on social security will not get paid. You are both obviously not government employees so this does not affect YOU. I am not a government employee but if I was I would be extremely annoyed that I was not going to get paid. How could I pay my bills?

This government shutdown doesn’t even accomplish what the Republicans want, it doesn’t get rid of Obamacare. The Republicans are holding the 30 million American’s healthcare and shutting down the government as a hostage to accomplish absolutely nothing.

The Republicans are more divided than ever. The Republicans will be the ones to suffer from this ridiculous manufactured crisis. Ted Cruz will be an outcast within his own party after all of this theater. They will attract less people to their party because people are going to be upset when they don’t get what they need to pay their bills and live. Or they will get their way and 30 million people will not get health coverage.

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Kevlar @kevlar

@juliaw
@TwoCents

Julia, where do I start? I guess paragraph by paragraph will do in this case.

Those who will not be able to go to work today will not be able to get there (getting there is your point) because of something they did. It could be a flat tire, it could be that the kids are sick, there are a variety of reasons why someone will not be able to go to work today but the government shutdown is NOT one of them. The government is NOT ever responsible for your getting to work.

In the same sentence – if they go to work there is a contract that states they will be paid for work they perform in accordance with their employment contract. I hope you have heard that those government employees who have a government computer (laptop) or cell phone are not allowed to use them while they are on shutdown. This is to make sure that the “shutdown” employee CANNOT perform work for which he would otherwise be contractually entitled to pay. As those laptops and phones belong to the government, any use of them against those directions could constitute a crime.

With all due respect, the first part AND the second part of your first sentence are bogus.

Next sentence – see above about not working and not being paid for not working. However, it is interesting to note that in most of the previous shutdowns the employees were retroactively paid for work they did not perform. Kinda takes the wind out of that sentence as well.

People on Social Security will in fact get their checks. Perhaps you might consider paying attention to current events and you might not have made that factually incorrect statement.

You are correct that I am not a government employee but you are incorrect when you say that this does not affect me. We are all Americans and therefore free people. Read the founding documents, specifically the Declaration of Independence and you will find that the ONLY reason for government to exist is to secure that freedom. So yes, everything the government does, whether it is right or wrong, good or bad, affects me. Respectfully this is another incorrect statement by you.

As for the last sentence of your first paragraph, it is you who are responsible to pay your bills, not the government. I don’t make this statement to correct something you got wrong. I am just merely pointing it out for the sake of clarity.

Second paragraph. You are right in saying that the Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare. They are not doing this just to annoy Obama. They are doing this because they honestly believe, as do I, that Obamacare is bad for this country and they are offering plenty supporting evidence for that claim. In the art of negotiation you start with what you want and through negotiation you often end in compromise. I believe that a one-year delay for the individual mandate would be a reasonable compromise for the House Republicans. As for me, I believe it to be unconstitutional and therefore a compromise would not work (for me). A simple reading of the constitution proves that Obamacare is unconstitutional.

Obama illegally gave waivers to his friends who complained (correctly) that this is destructive. Why, if all men are created equal, is he giving a waiver only to his friends and not to everyone? Books could be written on this alone.

The Republicans are NOT holding 30 million Americans healthcare hostage. For one thing Obamacare is NOT about healthcare, it is about health INSURANCE. It is interesting to note though that according to estimates (from the CBO, I believe) that AFTER the full implementation of Obamacare there will, by design, still be 30 million Americans uninsured and since not a single Republican ever voted for the bill this is ALL on the Democrats, but I digress.

It is also incorrect to say that the Republicans are holding the government hostage. The Republicans are operating according to the constitution regarding the requirement that ALL spending authorization be initiated in the House. If you want to look at someone holding the government hostage please look at the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who will not even let the Senate vote on many things, or the president who WILL NOT negotiate. Please note that if you have that kind of power and refuse to negotiate your are using dictator tactics, but Obama is very familiar with that type of rule.

Third paragraph. Finally I agree with you that the Republicans are divided. Most of them don’t have the integrity to stand up for the people and do so while operating within the confines of the United States Constitution. The term RINO has been given to them and is very appropriate. I would like to leave it here, on a good note – a point of agreement between us, but you have continued and so will I.

We have gotten to this point because the government for years has ignored the constitution, both parties are guilty. That said, when one of the parties, Republicans in this case, decide to adhere to the constitution, the other party is out of line if they for political purposes interfere with that. The Republican Party is not a saint and neither is the Democrat Party. However, today the Republican Party (not the RINOs) are trying to adhere to the constitution and the Democrat Party is doing everything they can to stop that. If the Republicans lose this fight the entire country looses. Unfortunately it won’t be just a fight we lose; it will be our freedom we lose.

Respectfully Julia, why are you arguing against the Constitution of the United States?

Sure glad your post was short!

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

@kevlar good topic, good information. Thanks for your reply to Julia, it saved me a lot of typing.

Keep bringing the facts.

It may help those who run on emotion, stop and think.

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Gary @grand-vizier

Kevlar, Your post is really great and explains the facts to a tee but the vast majority of people will never bother to pay attention long enough to care or understand. besides I don’t doubt for a minute that Harry Reid or Obama are unaware of the laws or the Constitution.
They just don’t care!
This is about POWER,legal or otherwise.
This is how power is seized and kept.
If you think it can’t happen here,be very careful, neither did Germany.
So long as the President and Harry Reid believe they don’t need to negotiate with the elected House of representatives the Nation is in peril of a Coup.
The Republicans are now in the position, for better or worse , of holding their ground or destroying the way Government has worked for over 200 years.
There has been discord between the branches of Government before but never before has that power been used so nakedly.
Talk of Bush’s Imperial Presidency is a very distant memory.
In any case Bush NEVER dreamed of doing what is now going on.
If the house falters there will be no checks and balances, the progressives will be free to remake the country in its entirety.
I would much rather the Government stay closed down than have the Government become so powerful it dictates to it’s citizens.
That is what is at stake.
First you are REQUIRED to buy Obamacare. A TAX is not a TAX.
You are required to “share your wealth”. Is that in the Constitution?
The Government can spy on you.
The President can decide what the law is. Is Congress just an advisor?
Non-citizens can vote and serve on juries.
The border is uncontrollable.
No matter how high the taxes the Government needs to borrow money to operate.
There is no plan whatsoever to return to a surplus and EVER pay back the money.
Interest on bonds is very low. If interest rates jump,the government cannot survive without huge devaluation,resulting in chaos.
Keeping interest rates low may be beneficial to business and Wall Street but it existential to the Government.
Absolutely no one in Government has the slightest idea how to get back on track.
Obama says the debt is falling faster than ever.
Why do we need more debt then? Why is the borrowing clock still raising at record speed.
They are telling the people Black is White and Up is Down and GETTING AWAY with it.
You don’t need to be a genius to figure most of this out.
Just look around you.
The lies are so big no one can believe they could possibly be lies.
People are in complete disbelief of their own observations.
Surely they say, I must not understand,it can’t be this bad. We have smart people in the Government. they must have a plan to fix all this.
No they don’t!
They have NO idea.
They just want to have a chair when the music stops.
If the Republicans in the House fold up out of weakness or self interest rather than stand for the citizens, even if the citizens don’t understand ,we may never recover from this Presidency I fear.
The power to control the budget is all that’s left to the House, I hope they treasure it.

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Kevlar @kevlar

@twocents
@juliaw
@jlriggs57aol-com
@grand-vizier

Folks, I hope that what Gary wrote scared the hell out of you because he is absolutely correct.

Thanks for telling it like it is, Gary.

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Brian @irie-brian

@juliaw. America is more divided than ever, and of course, we all focus on money and When we will get our Next pay check or cheap health care costs instead of how we are getting them.. America is a VERY rare place where we are endowed with the right of of Liberty, Real Liberty. Some may think that means we are at Liberty to certain privileges or dividends, but I think Liberty is the power to do or choose as one wants to. I do not think that Repubicans in House know all of the answers however I support their stubborn stance, for America is no longer the land of Liberty, and allowing these changes to slide is in my eyes the most AntiAmerican action taken in our history. If you really want to be “taken care of” by this unorganized, divided, Federal Government, I wish the best for you.

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Gwen @gjustice

Republicans and Democrats alike should be banding together at this point to protect our freedoms. We have Democrats that voted against this Obamacare monstrosity and traitor Republicans that have betrayed us.
We need to rise above the labels and stand up for what is right. This country was founded by people seeking freedom. And up until now has remained the home of freedom. Most of our ancestors came here to escape the treatment we are seeing dolled out lately. And those of you that support him should be ashamed.
If you want to be a socialist then move away. It is not fair to help this man trainwreck the country. Socialism is not the answer for us.
Perhaps we could hoard all of you into 1 area of the US and then separate ourselves from you. Put up a border and stop helping you in any way. But that would be hard to do as your people are the selfish ones who have baby after baby and expect the rest of us to want to take care of and deal with these over indulged; under disciplined brats! In a short amount of time, you would be broke and trying to sneak across our border.
As we would be better without the dead weight, we would prosper. In the same time that it would take all of you to ruin your country, we would be debt free and restored as a super power.

If only….Gwen’s American Dream

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Damien Christian @djc91ua

@kevlar you’re right about the shutdown being more of a political scare tactic. For instance only 17% of the government has actually “shutdown”

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Kevlar @kevlar

@twocents
@juliaw
@jlriggs57aol-com
@grand-vizier
@irie-brian
@gjustice
@djc91ua

Something that I have always wondered how to answer is the question “at what point is it OK to tell someone to compromise their integrity?”

Actually the answer, at least for me, is simple. You don’t. That said there are some things to take into consideration. I will use Senator Ted Cruz as an example. He is standing up for a principle and that is that Obamacare is bad for the country. Is his stand based on his integrity or is it politically motivated?

The evidence overwhelmingly supports the notion that Obamacare is bad for the country and I will let others bring that evidence to bear but it is everywhere. If the evidence is there, you must conclude that the principled stand of Ted Cruz, and for that matter the House Republicans, is a stand of integrity.

It is expected that many Democrats would disagree but that is the essence of differing ideologies – so for the sake of this part of the argument you can ignore the Democrats. I am getting at the dissenting Republicans who are in fact dividing and destroying or at least trying to destroy the Republican Party.

Most of the Republicans agree with the premise that Obamacare is bad for the country; you might notice that not a single Republican voted for it. As a side note did the Democrats when they passed this train-wreck without a single Republican vote whatsoever not know that there would unintended consequences the least of which would be that if the Republicans ever got enough power to submit their previously-ignored vote that they would do just that? The Democrats had to see that coming and if they didn’t they are even less intelligent than it would seem.

But here is the problem: You can take a political stand on the issue OR a principled stand based on integrity but in this case not both. The political answer seems to be to fund the program so as to keep the government going and not take blame for a shutdown caused almost exclusively by the President and the Democrat-controlled Senate. However, this flies in the face of integrity, as discussed above.

How can a politically-motivated Republican ask an integrity-motivated Republican, especially in a public venue, to actively and purposefully compromise his integrity? If you are more motivated by politics (this is important as well) and want to vote to fund Obamacare for political reasons, then so be it. Vote that way if you think it is necessary. However, DO NOT publically ask or tell your colleagues to compromise their integrity. When you do you force them to either stand for or ignore their already stated integrity. Vote against your colleagues if you must, but don’t ask them publically to compromise their integrity.

Don’t misunderstand, compromise is not a bad thing and must happen if there are competing ideologies, especially when your party is the minority party. You can compromise on what you think might be best and maybe settle for half of what you want. But compromising your integrity is NEVER OK. That said, if you must vote against your colleagues for political purposes then do so. Vote your conscience but don’t ask them publically to compromise their integrity – this seems to be a recurring theme here.

Can political compromise ever be more important than a principled stand? Yes it can and here is an example. If your party is out of power and you have some outstanding ideas on how to fix the problems and lead the country into the future, then no matter how good your ideas are, if you don’t win the election, your ideas will not be implemented. This is a concept that, for example, the die-hard Libertarians have not figured out. Think about how many Libertarians voted for Ron Paul last time he ran for president. They put principle way above politics. So far above that they lost big time (and every time) and so did the rest of the country because of their stand. Dividing the vote is ALWAYS a loser.

Bottom line, and please listen up all you Republicans of influence: vote against your colleagues if you must because you have a point that politics are important, specifically then it comes to winning elections, but don’t EVER publically destroy your colleagues when they take a principled stand that is in line with your own integrity but you don’t have the guts to make your integrity known. Acknowledge their integrity first, and then state that for political reasons you will vote against them. This can be done without attacking their integrity.

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Brian @irie-brian

The sad thing to me is all the stuff that I have seen shut down are things that actually generate revenue for our country and could furthermore pay their employees with income brought in by being open to customers. For example, national parks collect permit fees, navy commissaries make money off food for military and their families.. To me this is stupidity and is blackmailing the American people into giving up their liberties.. I say keep it all shutdown, my state seems to be functioning well, lets open our budget back up for military and let the states handle the rest, then impeach Obama. (: …just putting that last bit out there.

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natashia @racer79h

Like me, millions of Americans are on some kind of welfare or social security either by choice or by society making it impossible for some to get jobs. (Nobody wants to hire someone that may or may not be able to fulfill their duties). I work and pay taxes and do not have a million kids. Only birthed one and raising one more by choice. So I don’t consider myself to be “taking advantage ” of government benefits. Some do though. (Have kids just to get welfare). Taking away government benefits is not really good for the economy. Those out there that don’t know how much stimulation the economy gets from benefits might not care if they (benefits) get taken away. But they will when they are laid off or “let go ” because people on social security and welfare won’t be spending money they no longer have. Then they will want their social security and foodstamps because they don’t have jobs. Welfare and social security make a “huge circle of stimulation ” that keeps people in jobs and keeps jobs in this country. If there is no social security and welfare, there simply won’t be very much money being spent by the millions on these benefits. They will die off quickly and not quietly so be prepared… this in my opinion will cause civil war.

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natashia @racer79h

Like me, millions of Americans are on some kind of welfare or social security either by choice or by society making it impossible for some to get jobs. (Nobody wants to hire someone that may or may not be able to fulfill their duties). I work and pay taxes and do not have a million kids. Only birthed one and raising one more by choice. So I don\’t consider myself to be \”taking advantage \” of government benefits. Some do though. (Have kids just to get welfare). Taking away government benefits is not really good for the economy. Those out there that don\’t know how much stimulation the economy gets from benefits might not care if they (benefits) get taken away. But they will when they are laid off or \”let go \” because people on social security and welfare won\’t be spending money they no longer have. Then they will want their social security and foodstamps because they don\’t have jobs. Welfare and social security make a \”huge circle of stimulation \” that keeps people in jobs and keeps jobs in this country. If there is no social security and welfare, there simply won\’t be very much money being spent by the millions on these benefits. They will die off quickly and not quietly so be prepared… this in my opinion will cause civil war.

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Two Cents @twocents

@gjustice I completely agree with you that we need to rise above the labels. There are tons of Republicans right now that are joining the Democrats behind the scenes. Actually, Mitch McConnell told all Republicans that support Ted Cruz or the group FreedomWorks that they are TRAITORS. He actually said that! Can you believe it. No Mr. McConnell, you are a progressive, you are going against what your party should stand for trying to secure your position of power.

@racer79h It is good to hear that you are not taking advantage. I do not believe that most people using these programs for assistance are doing it to take advantage. However I do believe that a great enough amount of them are that it is sufficient. I believe enough take advantage that it would be in our best interest to weed them out. Not only to save money, but to allow those that truly need assistance more assistance to get on their own two feet faster. I think its terribly sad that some programs have so many abusers, such as housing programs, that there is a waiting list of people that actually need the programs that cannot access them.

But going back to the shut down. This situation has become even worse. The politicians, especially on the left, are trying to manipulate the American people by making this shut down seem worse than it is. The President had the time to allow an IMMIGRATION RALLY, for which they BUILT A STAGE on the mall. All the while WW2 vets could not see their memorial, and Vietnam vets are being arrested. It is absolutely despicable!

To Kevlar’s question about integrity. I am so proud of the senators and conservatives that are standing their ground. At least we know who we can trust, and who we cannot trust through this whole ordeal.

@irie-brian @kevlar @grand-vizier @jlriggs57aol-com @juliaw

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Kevlar @kevlar

@racer79h

Natashia:

While I believe these programs to be unconstitutional, I do not advocate their demise because as you correctly point out, too many people have come to rely on them. The main reason they are unconstitutional is that they are at the federal level and the federal government has NO AUTHORITY to do either of these. These are the jurisdiction of the states and this is very clearly stated in the constitution.

Secondly, I don’t believe it is anywhere near an act of freedom to, by law, take money which is my private property, from me and give it to someone else. That needs to be read in this context: I do agree that we as a society need to care for those who are unable to care for themselves. There are two ways to do this and they are charity and welfare. Charity is voluntary, welfare is mandatory and it constitutes the theft of private property.

My sister was on welfare many years ago because of a divorce when she had an infant child to care for and at the time she had no education beyond high school. She had no place to turn except welfare. She fought to get free from welfare and about six months later she was able to free herself from the program. Welfare did for her what it is supposed to do and at that level I support the program.

What I don’t support is the abuse in the program. Many people make a career out of it and that is wrong. Granted, a few people need lifetime help but not very many.

Social Security is money you and I paid in to and we should get it back. That said, many don’t ever see a penny and that is wrong. The system is corrupt but like I said, I do not condone its demise. There are many ways to make it better though and we should probably start by giving the program to the states because they at least have the legal authority for such a program.

Social Security consists of two parts and I am not talking about SSI vs SSD. Social Security is collected as a tax and that is legal per the constitution. The federal government can tax you anytime, anywhere, and for any amount and they can do so without stating a reason. They just happen to call the reason “Social Security” but that explanation is irrelevant.

What is illegal per the constitution is for the federal government to spend that money on your retirement or disability. Kinda like a “catch-22.” Even though it was your money they took they are not allowed (as in no authority) to give it back to you in the form of retirement or disability money. Check out the enumerated powers and the tenth amendment for proof of this.

This same concept applies to Obamacare. The federal government can tax you all day long. In this case they tell you it is because you didn’t buy a government approved health insurance policy. You will notice this used to be called a “fine” but the Supreme Court said that would not stand under our constitution so they (SCOTUS) struck down the law.

Then SCOTUS illegally changed the word from “fine” to tax. This did not make the law legal under the constitution. This makes it totally irrelevant and coincidently makes it so that Obamacare as a law is also irrelevant. Congress can tax you because you wear a blue shirt or because you don’t wear a green shirt or whatever reason meets their fancy that day and that would be legal because it doesn’t matter WHY they tax, they do not ever need a reason.

The illegal part of this is that they have absolutely no authority to spend that money on health care or health insurance. Unfortunately SCOTUS did not rule either way on that because that was not contested in any court. If it ever is contested and the courts do their job, that will be the end of Obamacare.

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Gwen @gjustice

@irie-brian I have similar thoughts. The country needs to do what an average person does when they are in severe debt. It needs to cut a lot of frill and only cover the basics. But that is not happening so the shutdown is a good start. The president should not be going on vacations and playing golf. He should be ashamed to be seen doing this when we are in debt. Our country is in a bad marriage with a crazy ***** that has maxed out all of our credit cards and trying to mortgage our house to go shopping. We need a divorce aka. impeachment a.s.a.p.
And I am not just throwing that out there. I am seconding that motion. In a world where good jobs are hard to come by, this man fails miserably at his and yet still gets paid for his monumental failure. I want him held accountable for not doing his job just like I would be.
As I have said before, i think that we need to forget the political parties and focus on only voting for true Americans. Americans that stand to protect our constitutional rights and restore power to the individual states. As it pretty obvious that the needs and desires of citizens can vary drastically based on geography.

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Gwen @gjustice

@twocents where you are going with this I follow. I feel like the two parties no longer stand for what they used to. It’s as if we have the bad guys in both trying to hold onto power by destroying our way of life. No longer are they capable of the redeeming qualities they once stood for and they need to be called out. Bravo to Ted Cruz and anyone that speaks the truth in spite of being in the minority amongst his peers.

The only traitors are the ones who trample on our constitution, freedoms (freedom of religion is a huge problem right now), traditions, flags, monuments, veterans and military. And that is just a small generalized list.

My late grandfather and countless generations of Americans fought for these freedoms. How dare these tyrants betray our very core for their own agenda. I may hate the circumstances but seeing this level of passion in defense of our constitution is exciting. Makes me super proud to be an American. (yes I said super proud…)

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Kevlar @kevlar

@gjustice

Gwen:

I couldn’t agree with you more. That was well written and thoughtful.

I agree with your analogy that we need a divorce ASAP. It is my opinion, and has been for quite some time, that there will be no impeachment of Obama unless and until the evidence is not just overwhelming, but incredibly overwhelming.

I believe this to be true because of the consequences of even starting the process. I don’t have a racist bone in my body but that doesn’t matter. Can you imagine the national uproar that would happen if the House tried to impeach the first black president? It would be chaos and it could be uncontrollable.

There are people who support Obama because they truly believe he is the best person for the job. I personally disagree with these people but they have my respect because they are acting on their true belief. You and I may see these people as “misguided” but at least they are probably honest folks. If they are honest folks they can participate in debate and that debate, if conducted well, can change their minds. I would hazard to guess that this group of people is rather small compared to Obama supporters as a whole.

Then there is what I would call the uninformed folks and this group is very large. These people often can’t even spell politics, let alone understand politics. It isn’t because these people are stupid, though some might be. It is because they consider politics to be low on the list of important things. They consider their jobs, family, and livelihood to be more important than politics and that is kinda hard to argue with. These people more often than not just blindly accept whatever a politician promises and when the politician can’t deliver and finds someone to blame for his failures these people believe that as well. Some of these people are smart, and good debate can educate them, but this won’t work with all of them.

Then there are the folks who support Obama for the single reason that he is black and it is high-time we had a black president. This group of folks is incredibly large as well and their vote, which is every bit as equal to yours and mine, has no rational basis whatsoever. You can debate these people until you are blue in the face and when you are done all you will have is a blue face – nothing changed.

The bottom line is that Obama has a huge group of supporters and some of them have their heels dug in pretty deep. Any attempt to try to impeach him will be met with strong resistance and the House of Representatives needs to be prepared for this, and fortunately they know it.

President Clinton was impeached for lying to Congress and I wholeheartedly supported that impeachment. The Senate did not remove him and I kinda agree with that too. I never was a fan of Clinton but the alternative was Gore and I was less a fan of him. Clinton was impeached not for having extra-marital sex in the Whitehouse (as some of his supporters believe) but for lying to congress, which is a federal crime and many people serve several years in prison for the same.

To note – the Senate did not remove him because that lie to congress was indeed a lie about sex. A lie is a lie and the impeachment was justified. The Senate had the duty to evaluate if the crime warranted removal and they were allowed to see the bigger picture. The House could only look at the crime of lying to Congress and were not allowed to see the bigger picture. This is how our constitution works.

I say that to set up a question. If that was Obama who did exactly the same thing, committed the same crime, do you think he would be impeached? I don’t think so. I think the potential for riots and chaos would deter the House from ever starting the process. As much as I am not a fan of Obama, I would agree that in that case the risk would not warrant impeachment.

So what does warrant impeachment of Obama? Whatever it is it had better be so overwhelming as to break that nearly unbreakable bond with his most die-hard supporters. If it were not for the racial part of the issue, he would already have been impeached and removed.

Things are being added to the scale almost daily that can prompt the House to start the impeachment process. That scale will eventually tip in the direction of impeachment but I think the House as a whole is hoping that the tipping of the scale doesn’t happen until Obama is out of office, which means they won’t have to bite the bullet.

So what is adding up here? Where do I start? How about bailing-out General Motors? Where in the constitution does the federal government get the authority to spend tax dollars to rescue a corporation from bankruptcy and furthermore break or “impair” the obligation of contract (which can only be done by a federal bankruptcy judge) and not first payoff the bond-holders? This was a crime. The obligation of contract is specifically mentioned in the constitution (several times).

How about the cash-for-clunkers program? Where is the authority to spend tax dollars on that? This is a crime.

How about his investments in “green energy” specifically his investment and loss of tax dollars in Solyndra? It is not that he lost tax dollars that is a crime, because investment carries risk. It is that he had zero authority to spend tax dollars on that. This is a crime.

How about Fast-and-Furious and the cover-up thereof? Crime.

How about the excessive regulations by the EPA? This is a crime because he cannot regulate the economy through executive order or non-legislative bodies such as the EPA. ONLY congress can legislate. This is a crime and there are many more like it.

How about his selecting which laws to enforce and which laws to not enforce? He has no authority to do that. Making laws and repealing laws is a legislative power and specifically NOT an executive power. These are crimes of epic proportions.

How about the illegal war in Libya in 2011? We participated in an offensive war in Libya, dropping bombs which tend to kill people, and none of this had anything to do with the defense of our nation or the defense of our allies. This was a humanitarian mission to get Qaddafi to stop killing his own people. We illegally entered a sovereign nation to kill people who were not a threat to the United States.

I am not against using our military in humanitarian missions if time permits. Our military did a spectacular job in their humanitarian missions in hurricane Katrina and the humanitarian mission in Japan after the earthquake and tsunami. There is a difference here though. We did not, in either Katrina or Japan, employ offensive combat tactics and kill people. We did in Libya and had we attacked Syria it would have been the same but much worse. I am not a fan of Putin but if he gave pause for Obama to come back to reality then Putin did our nation a favor. Obama would have put Syrian blood on the hands of ALL Americans.

In Libya we killed people who were not our enemy, and did so under the guise of “humanitarianism.” This is not killing as an act of war, which is considered self-defense and therefore authorized (maybe not by the laws of God but certainly by the laws of man). No, this is murder and murder is a crime under any law.

Then there was the terrorist attack on our official United States Ambassador in Benghazi in 2012. Had this been four Americans murdered while on vacation in a foreign country, it would be over. However, since this involved our official Ambassador and our official United States presence in that foreign country, this was far more than the murder of four Americans.

This was a terrorist attack against the United States of America. It is not certain that we could have arrived there with enough force in time to save the Ambassador, as tragic as losing four Americans might be the laws of physics sometimes don’t play in your favor. This is not about the murder of four Americans (although that is important). This is about an attack on the United States of America and an attack on the freedoms of every American to be secure in their person and especially when performing official and non-combative duties in the service of our nation.

As a side note – keep this in mind because if the House Republicans ever conduct the investigation correctly, this will stop Hillary Clinton from running for president in 2016. If they do this at the right time it will guarantee a Republican president.

If you are a designated combatant (armed soldier) then you take on a different status. The Ambassador was NOT a designated combatant. Bottom line (to keep this short), our nation was attacked and the person who is solely responsible to defend our nation (actually it is his highest duty and only purpose for having his job) failed to even TRY to defend the United States.

In war, you don’t always win every battle but not trying is not only treasonous and cowardly in the face of the enemy, but a breach of oath to the constitution and grounds for immediate impeachment and removal. The person responsible is none other than President Obama. This is a crime of epic proportions. Obama’s failure to properly investigate this dereliction of duty further endangers the United States and is yet ANOTHER incredibly-overwhelming justification for impeachment. But why would you want to investigate when all fingers must and will point to you. This is plain to see even without an investigation.

Abuse of the public trust by using or even allowing the IRS to punish fellow Americans for political purposes is a crime. Lois Lerner exercised her Fifth Amendment right to not be compelled to be a witness against herself. It is questionable if she did this correctly and if she did it incorrectly then she has waved her Fifth Amendment rights. I personally think she did it incorrectly and this opens the door for congress to compel her to testify. I will state my reasons and then state why that doesn’t even matter.

Lois Lerner took the stand and under oath testified that she had done “nothing wrong” and had “committed no crime” and only then did she invoke her Fifth Amendment rights. Well, you can’t have it both ways, you can’t testify that you did nothing wrong and then invoke those rights so as to not have to defend what you just said before invoking them. It doesn’t matter though and for several reasons.

You can look at it as though she cannot be compelled to testify or defend any statements she made once she invoked those rights. This means she has the right to STOP TALKING at that point. OK fine. However, BEFORE she invoked her right to not be a witness against herself, she made a very bold statement that she had “not committed any crime.”

OK, so congress shouldn’t touch anything AFTER she invoked her rights but she made that one statement BEFORE she invoked her rights. That is fair game and since it is extremely vague, congress can ask just about any question they want without stepping on her rights. Notice that congress is afraid to do that. Why? What are they afraid of? Are they afraid that if they follow this trail to the end they will be forced to start the impeachment process?

Another interesting thing about the testimony of Lois Lerner is that the Fifth Amendment is designed to protect the PEOPLE from the government, not protect the government from the people. The government is fully and 100% accountable to the people. Lois Lerner, as a citizen has protection of the Fifth Amendment. But the office of the Director of Tax Exempt Organizations for the IRS does NOT have Fifth Amendment protection.

What this means is simply this – she (in her role as a government official) can be compelled to testify under oath but to compel her the congressional committee doing the questioning first must make it so that she (as a private citizen) would not be a witness against herself in this “criminal case” (these are the words from the Fifth Amendment).

This means that congress would have to grant her immunity from prosecution for her prior actions. If she cannot be convicted of a crime because of her immunity then all reason to not testify has been removed and then she can be compelled to testify just as you and I can be. I think there are two things at play here as to why congress hasn’t yet granted her immunity.

One, I do think congress is afraid of where this could lead and that is to impeachment of Obama, and two, I think there is some thinking in congress that they can get sworn testimony from other IRS officials that could also put Lerner in prison (without her testimony). Getting her testimony with immunity would speed up the process but in the end she would walk free. Denying immunity while getting others to provide the testimony she would provide with immunity would keep her from needing immunity and she could spend years in prison.

The Fifth Amendment does not relieve you of any crime you might have committed, it only protects you from being a witness against yourself in that crime. In other words, someone else testifies against Lerner and she still gets convicted. If I were Lerner I would be asking (make that begging) congress for immunity before she gets blind-sided by her colleagues. The bottom line here is that this is a crime of epic proportions and is very much impeachable for any participants including Obama if they can prove his involvement.

There are other and even more recent impeachable offenses including the current government shutdown. A shutdown in and of itself is probably not impeachable but there are many internal issues which probably are impeachable. Obama is using dictatorial powers (which he does not have) to declare that it is “my way or the highway” and this flies in the face of freedom in so many ways. Not only is he using dictatorial powers, but he is using them to defend an unconstitutional law. I have written extensively on this so I will not include it here.

Obama is trying to scare people by telling us of an impending default on our debt. I have written extensively on this as well but suffice to say that a default can only happen if Obama, and ONLY Obama, wants and allows it to happen. There is more than enough money to pay for defense and to service the national debt.

Personally I think that deliberately scaring the folks is a breach of trust of epic proportions and therefore an impeachable offense but I am probably in a minority with that opinion. However, if we actually do default on the national debt, as long as there is even one dollar in the treasury (and we have well over $2 trillion coming in every year), it will be an epic breach of the constitution and therefore an epic crime that can only be committed (and only allowed by) by Obama himself. Impeachable? Absolutely.

There are many more examples but the original thought was “what will it take to impeach Obama.” Again, the answer is an incredibly overwhelming amount of evidence. Obama will never be impeached like Clinton was. That was justified but in this case it would invoke a race war that might never stop. This means there must be more than that.

In my opinion we passed the required mark when Obama failed to even try to defend the United States when we were attacked in Benghazi. If it were up to me the impeachment would have already happened. It is not up to me, it is up to congress, and where their line is I don’t know. Keep in mind also that not only do you risk a race war that can destroy the country, but your case must be solid enough that the Senate (who supports Obama) will remove him from office or you will have risked a lot but for zero reward.

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Brian @irie-brian

@Kevlar, You make a good point about Americans fear of being called racist in ousting Obama; I would argue that it would be more patriotic than racists and that we should not let fears get in the way of doing something that should be done. Nowadays people are so worried about how things look and if something sounds politically correct or makes people smile. I love making people smile, however I believe more smiles will be achieved if we sacrifice our pride and do what needs to be done now. The AMerican Dream is a Great thing and we need to get back to our roots and realize that we the people are the engines and rudder to achieve that dream. We must do what needs to be done in order to protect and create a more perfect union. This does not mean regulate, this means we must each individually stand up for our right to earn and pursuit happiness.

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