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The political, social networking site that integrates politics with popular culture.

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nathalie @nathaliedacosta

touchy subject, indeed

think about this: how would you go about enforcing an “abortion in the case of rape only” policy.

theoretically you can advocate whatever individual moral standard you like, but in terms of the law, you really need to be either pro-life or pro-choice. theres no “ifs” and “buts” without a lot of time, money, and personnel getting wasted on useless (and very personal) investigations.

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Wow… where to start

Death penalty: I honestly can’t say I agree with it. It’s an eye-for-an-eye remnant from ages past of unenlightened societies where the sole purpose is to exact vengeance for a perceived wrong. Being that we have exonerated hundreds of death row inmates with DNA evidence or additional information that has come to light amidst the appeals process, I don’t think it’s fair to say we should.

Prison crowding: the U.S. has double the per capita population in jail at over 2%. The next highest country is at 1%. It is because we persecute non-violent drug offenders and put them in jail instead of rehab. Once they go to prison, they have to join a gang to survive–where they ultimately commit more crimes. A harmless pothead often comes out a hardened gangster 5-10 years later… commits more crimes, goes right back in.

Abortion: Point 1– I know I’ll never convince you of this, but accidents happen. Even when using proper protection. These accidents can totally ruin peoples’ lives… cause them to drop out of college, force them away from their families, and lead them to financial ruin. Also, there are enough people in the world. I commend those who choose NOT to have kids (especially if they’re outright stupid).

Point 2– It’s not your body, it’s not your business. It might be against your religious principles, you might not agree with it, and you might not choose what many women do when put into that situation… but it doesn’t mean you have any right to decide for them. Circumstances are unique. And the freedom of choice is one of the many values that makes this country great.

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Chase Knudsen @chaseknuts

@Brock Heubusch, Oh no I can see your point very clearly. Really I am limited in knowledge on these two topics. I was mostly looking for more points that I can understand. I m not looking to swayed one way or another, I am looking just for insight so that I can have a full position. Thanks a lot for what you’ve said. I really appreciate your insight.

I am leaning towards pro-choice all around and have always thought of it being your body–your business type of principle.

As for the death penalty I have to still understand why we see fit for the eye for an eye bit but I was just saying as a whole that if someone gets sentenced to it that they should just do it instead of spend tax dollars for the next 20 years and then they get the death penalty. I still don’t know as to what my moral grounds stand on the issue as well. I’m ignorant there trying to learn more.

Thanks again.

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I definitely had no emotional investment in that approach, and I appreciate what you’re saying. It seems you have a very balanced approach to learning.

I’m a libertarian, so that might give you some insight as to why my views are what they are. You will solidify your own in time obviously, but it’s definitely a personal journey. Best of luck.

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also I am ambivalent about the death penalty at times … consolation of victims families is important too, regardless of the eye for an eye thing. If someone killed one of my family members I would without hesitation end their life mercilessly. So I really don’t know what to say about that. Still formulating my own opinions I guess.

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Chase Knudsen @chaseknuts

Yeah totally! I’m also a libertarian, but there are a few things in our system that I am either A) ignorant on or B) Lack understanding to complete form. For the most part I know what I believe and what I think is right as it pertains to our constitution.

It’s just hard to decide when people who (like you said) go through these things on a personal level. Cause when we go through it on a personal level our actions and thoughts are almost always subdued by the situation at hand. It’s not as black and white as we all hope it could be; definitely a lot of gray.

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Two Cents @twocents

I’m just wondering. Is it really that hard to not get pregnant these days ladies? With the latest coming out of Texas regarding Rick Perry and the Republican bill to close down abortion clinics, people that oppose the bill are saying that Republicans are hurting women by restricting their reproductive rights. Regardless of how you feel about abortion being legal or illegal, is it really that important to be able to have an abortion? Why not just NOT get pregnant? Our government provides funding to clinics like planned parenthood so that you can get free condoms, free birth control, etc. So why is this HURTING women to not be able to have an abortion. I would argue that our education is hurting women if they think the only way to not get pregnant and have a child that would be economically burdening is by having the right to abort it. Come on people, prevention not abortion. Get with the program.

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The death penalty as it is today does not work. It allows for too many appeals, etc. It should be carried out with in a year for those who are definitely proven guilty and for those who are found guilty of heinous crimes. China just executed a top party official for raping 11 girls…. I totally agree with his punishment!
Abortion… I am pro-life and believe nature intended every baby to be born. The word abortion says it all. But as a libertarian I do not see how we go around forcing women to do anything. Republicans in Texas and other states that are restricting abortion are not offering women any support or help. How about a birth box like in Finland? How about diapers or child care? Those of us that believe in life should do more to CONVINCE (not force) women that having their baby is a better choice than terminating it. Churches, and other groups should be involved so a woman can complete her education or go to work, etc. And I agree with 2Cents… both men and women need to behave like adults and be more responsible for their actions.

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@fredh if murder is wrong, then we shouldn’t murder even as punishment for murder. And as to your comment that death penalties should be carried out in a year… what if that person deserves an appeal? What if they were wrongly convicted? A year is not enough time to prove their innocence or show how a jury wrongly convicted them. Either way I am against the death penalty. It costs more to lethally inject someone than to keep them in prison for life. Furthermore, trials in which prosecutors seek the death penalty, tax payers foot the bill for up to a million dollars more on average than when prosecutors seek life without parole. Just saying, from a cost perspective and a moral perspective the death penalty is wrong.

@fredh I agree with your statement on abortion. I am pro life myself but I can respect when someone doesnt believe it the governments job to tell a woman what to do with her health. I also agree that women need more choices and more support. @TwoCents yes it is difficult to not get pregnant when you come from an extremely uneducated background and do not have access or finances to gain access to birth control, condoms, etc. Or you do not have a car to drive to planned parenthood (because there are not enough of them in the US). Also, its pretty hard to prevent getting pregnant when you are sexually raped against your will.

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@Julia … I am not religious but a guilty life seems not enough for an innocent life. Some monsters do not deserve to live comfortably in a jail cell and be fed three times a day. I would make exceptions for certain crimes, but for the most heinous never. Murder trials last a long time, so it would be a year after found guilty and of course this would be for the murdered who has been found guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. The current system is more expensive than life in prison because appeals continue for 20 years. I would like to see how much Texas spends on these cases.
As for the abortion issue… if women cannot afford birth control, condoms, etc which are available everywhere… they should keep their panties on. I will not make excuses for Stupid. And less than 1 percent of abortions are rape related so it is a non-issue in my opinion. Lets work on reducing the other 99 percent.

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Bryce Schimmers @devilcon18

I think the Abortion part is the touchy subject. The way I look at it is that everyone deserves a chance. Like: the baby does not deserve to die, by any means, but, if somebody shoots up a movie theater or something like that, killing multiple people, he does not deserve to live. He killed people for no reason, so he should die for a justified reason.

The abortion in a rape case only is the touchy one.

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Khalil @voxpopuli

I agree on appeal process being way too long & think it should be shortened to maximum 3 times but The bigger issue here is the private prison industry. It’s a for profit industry so it comes at no surprise that length of incarceration & number of people incarcerated is the highest in the civilized world (you can fact check that) it is in their interest to continue business as usual. Prisons don’t rehabilitate you can clear see that by the amount re-incarcerated. $$

As far as abortion I’m going to keep it nice and short. It’s a woman’s right to choose. Not mine, not yours & certainly not the governments. Regardless if you believe it is morally, ethically or religiously wrong it’s not your choice to make.

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Katy Garcia @katygarcia

To me, being pro-life for oneself only is a bit hypocritical. No offense intended, but it’s somewhat like saying “I don’t believe in murder myself, but if someone else does, it’s fine by me if they go kill someone.”

That being said, I’m pro-life in all circumstances. If someone gets pregnant, it’s not the fault of the embryo/fetus, so why punish them for it? The choice isn’t simply regarding women’s healthcare, it’s regarding an innocent life that is being taken.

As for prison/death sentence reform, I don’t know enough about the issue to feel comfortable discussing it.

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Chad @pilotchadm

On abortions; This is actually pretty simple. If I have a heartbeat, then it stops beating, I am pronounced dead. We all agree on that because it is how we define life. A fetus has a heartbeat after only 22 days. That mean, the fetus is alive. By week 6 they are already detecting brain waves/function. By week 8, every organ is in place. By week 10 and 11 the baby can urinate, breathe amniotic fluid and can grasp objects. By week 12 the baby has everything it needs to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord and thalamus. At 14 weeks the baby’s heart pumps several courts of blood through its body. What does all that mean, it means that by terminating a baby and any point after 22 days is murder. Not only that, at week 12 they baby will experience pain, which means terminating it is cruel, unusual and should be considered torture. If the death penalty is in question, why wouldn’t abortion be out of the question! It should be, it is murder, not birth control. Anybody who thinks we shouldn’t have the death penalty should also be pro-life.

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nina anakar @ninaanakar

Well put, @brock

Before jumping to the death penalty as a cause for overcrowded jails, lets look at the amount of prisoners there on account of nonviolent drug charges.

Unfortunately I do agree that one needs to be either pro life or pro choice when it comes to the law. Although I myself haven’t been able to grasp a firm stance on this issue.

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Atusa @headstrong

The difference is abortion is killing an innocent, and the death penalty is killing a guilty so I’m fine being pro-life and then also pro-death penalty. However I think the waiting period is a good thing, in cases where the attorneys messed up or evidence got locked away or someone was being framed. I don’t believe in innocent people being put to death babies, adults, convicts whoever.

and btw- it’s not the woman’s body- it’s the baby’s body. you can tell a woman, don’t smoke, don’t eat unhealthy, don’t get on roller coasters if you are pregnant because it might hurt the child. but it’s perfectly ok, to stick a knife in you and kill the baby even at a stage where it feels pain- because all of a sudden something with separate fingernails, separate heartbeat became the woman’s body? and I’m sorry but the baby does not come with the woman. a man is involved, even through invetro that’s still a man being involved, so what about his say.
It was the girls choice to have sex, and I agree besides in cases like rape, or medically necessary cases abortion should be completely illegal. no protection is 100 percent effective, accidents happen, having the common sense to know that if you are sexually active you can possibly get pregnant should also accept the consequences of it. If it’s so absolutely terrible you could never handle a kid, and it’s going to ruin your life, then don’t have sex. say no. it’s not a necessity.

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tim @tgahagan

To be honest, I don’t think these 2 things have much in common. The death penalty is about terminating the life of a sentient being because of heinous criminal activity. Abortion is about terminating the viability of clumps of cells that are not sentient.

I am pro-life & pro-choice. Earlier-term abortion, to me, is not so different than removing a mole. I know other people see it differently, and I think it’s just fine for them to choose never to get an abortion, but I think the scientific understanding of fetal development seems fairly clear.

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Kate Stilling @katestilling

protect the innocent, punish the guilty.
while life in prison is a lovely thought, to penalize these criminals every single day for the rest of their lives, it’s also absurdly expensive. Money that we do not have to begin with.

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

I will start with what is simple for me. 1) The death penalty – If you are witnessed murdering someone, this does not include self defense, by 2 or more credible witnesses then you will likewise be removed from existence on this planet. Here’s where personal opinion comes into play. Temporary insanity has been used and abused for decades, if not longer, make it an invalid defense. 2) Abortion – Life begins at conception. For me there is no debate on that subject. In the case of rape, the baby did not ask to be conceived by an act of violence therefore it should not be killed for what it is not responsible for. Believe me when I say I understand that this would be incredibly hard for a woman to go full term reminded of the rape. However, not only does the baby not deserve to be murdered for someone else’s crime, but the rate of rape reports would skyrocket so the women, who got pregnant by consensual sex, could get an abortion. With the number of couples who would love to have a baby but can’t, I don’t think finding loving parents would be impossible by any means. In a case where the doctors would have to choose between the life of the baby or the mother, meaning one of them is going to die no matter what, then I would say yes, save the mothers life, she may have other children who need her. But that decision should be left to the mother.

I would like to speak on a misconception about the Old Testament versus that speak about “an eye for an eye”. This has been misused for as long as I can remember. If someone injured someone to the point they couldn’t work and care for his family and it was proven that he had done it, then he took over doing the work and providing for the family of the injured man, either temporarily or permanently depending on whether the injured man recovered or not. If someone blinded another person then from that point on it was up to him to be that man’s eyes.

If used in the conventionally misunderstood manner you would have two injured people who couldn’t work and two blind people, which makes no sense to God or man.

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Atusa @headstrong

^Excellently said, especially the part about the old testament. I have never heard anyone word it in that way. :-) @jlriggs57-aol-com

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Mary @gopgirl1991

I feel the pro-lifers and pro-choicers need to be fully pro-life or fully pro-choice. There is a lot of hypocrisy between anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. I understand that there are those that deserve to die after committing vicious crimes. If we execute them, we are just as bad as the criminals. Furthermore, mistakes happen all the time. The jury convicts the wrong guy quite often. There have been cases where innocent people have been executed. We should keep dangerous people in high security prisons for life. Let them suffer with the guilt for the rest of their lives. Deny them the chance for parole. Those that kill need to live with that in the back of their head until the day they die.

As for abortion, the government shouldn’t be regulating that. Morals aside, we shouldn’t send our tax money to fund another woman’s abortion. We shouldn’t have to pay for other women’s birth control pills. There are some things that we as citizens should pay for on our own if we choose to do so. I don’t want to fund the abortion of a woman that wasn’t smart enough to protect herself from pregnancy in the first place. Yes, I know that there are cases of rape/incest and health of the mother. However, women can go and get the morning after pill at a drug store after a sexual assault or rape. I’ve never been raped or sexually assaulted, but I imagine that would be the first thing I would do. They are everywhere! Finally, health of the mother abortions should be a last resort. Doctors and nurses should do whatever it takes to save both the mother and the child. If they can’t, save the mother. There will still be a chance that she conceives again.

All in all, I think we should get rid of the death penalty and put criminals in high security prisons and our tax money shouldn’t fund abortions (which also should be a last resort in trying to save a mother’s life).

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Gary @grand-vizier

jlriggs57@aol.com
Once again I think Riggs pretty much got it right, however I am reminded about what one old timer once told me.
He said “Son I don’t know if the death penalty is a deterrent to crime or not, but if we keep hangin’em (Killers,etc.) eventually we will run out of them.”
Abortion is complicated but there has to be a time after which it is forbidden. Personally I think Riggs has it right .
The Gosnell case made me sick.
What he did should have been a death penalty case.

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linda @lulubelle

First off, the new Texas abortion law requires doctors to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals, thus protecting the well being of the mother, pro- choice crowd doesn’t like this… second, the law allow abortions only in surgical centers, again protecting the mother, and pro-choice crowd doesn’t like that… Third, it limits where and when women may take abortion-inducing pills, again protecting the mother, guess what the pro- choice crowd doesn’t like it… Finally the law bans abortions after 20 weeks, thus protecting the fetus, and guess what the pro-choice crowd doesn’t like that either. I don’t see where this law infringes on a woman’s right, if anything it is protecting the woman’s health. My guess is, any law that doesn’t out right allow for full termination at any time, any where, by anybody is just unfair and anti woman’s rights. I applaud Texas for standing up and taking a stand, the law is not perfect, in my opinion it does not go far enough, but I respect the effort that it took and the steps it made in protecting the rights of the innocent fetus.

As far as the death penalty, like others have stated, if a criminal is proven guilty of a horrific crime, has exhausted all viable appeals, and is still found guilty, then that person deserves his fate. If the current laws were successfully enforced, we might see a decline in crime.

Both laws are designed to detour the killing of the innocent.

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tim @tgahagan

Linda, Are you really so well versed with the “pro-choice crowd” that you can speak for them – that you know what they like/dislike and why?

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Mike @stopthamadness

Look, I don’t believe the government should have the right to say who dies or who doesn’t unless it is authorized under a declaration of war. The same for abortion. Who is protecting the growing human in the womb’s rights? That fetus is a growing human, no matter if it’s in the belly.

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tim @tgahagan

A “growing human” is not the same thing as a human.
A “growing human” is a POTENTIAL human.
An egg cell is a POTENTIAL human. As is a sperm cell.
And with cloning technology, so is a skin cell.
Should we protect the rights of all human cells? Or is that just silly?
What is important about a human life that makes it not okay to take that life away?

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Gary @grand-vizier

Tim,
Skip back and read Riggs statement about a heartbeat !
If you can’t figure out the difference for yourself too bad.
It’s called being deliberately obtuse and seems like a common condition in certain circles these days.

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Gary @grand-vizier

@Tgahagan It was actually a comment from Chad about the heartbeat, not Riggs.

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tim @tgahagan

Cows have heartbeats. So do pigs and reptiles. Don’t think it’s the heartbeat that is all that important in assessing what is fantastic about sentient human life.

Oh, and my grandma used to say, anybody who acts like they know all the answers, probably doesn’t.

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Two Cents @twocents

@tgahagan plants have cells. Are humans the same as plants? We are discussing humans having abortions on this thread. We are not discussing cows because cows are not having abortions by the count of 1.2 million a year in the United States, 40,000,000 a year in the world.

You asked: “What is important about a human life that makes it not okay to take that life away?” And I honestly don’t think I could say anything to help someone who even asks a question like that understand the importance of human life. @Grand-Vizier was right, you are deliberately obtuse.

I am pro choice until the baby has a heartbeat, because I believe that once their is a heartbeat, the fetus is no longer a potential human, it is a human. Therefore, I think if a woman makes a mistake, is raped, or misses her period twice, she should have an abortion if she chooses. Once the baby has a heartbeat, around 10 weeks after conception I think abortion should be illegal.

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John PharmD @epharmd

Wow. Catching up on the Neanderthal views on Women’s health and rights, from the bro’s out there. Amazing how men seem to be authorities on women’s issues.

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tim @tgahagan

Dear Two Cents,
I am not being deliberately obtuse. In fact, I’m I’m not being obtuse at all!
I am pointing out the logical inconsistencies in the arguments given. To be more specific,
1) it is not a heartbeat that makes a human life uniquely special, because a heartbeat is shared by many other lifeforms
2) it is not cels that make a human life special, as they are also shared by many life forms (and by many accounts, are the very definition of life)
3) The question, ” “What is important about a human life that makes it not okay to take that life away?” is relevant to this topic because, so far, I have not seen anyone make a case for anything other than abortion being a super-fine, morally-clear option.

And if I you are saying that you wish to frame laws that control other people’s choices on the mere basis of a purely arbitrary criteria of a heartbeat, then that strikes me as offensive and morally repugnant. I hope you have thought it through more clearly than that.

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tim @tgahagan

Perhaps the things that makes humans special do not apply during fetal development.

Perhaps that’s why terminating the life of a fetus is not the same thing as terminating the life of a grown human being.

On the other hand, perhaps they do apply … then that would be a terrible thing.

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Julia Wotten @juliaw

@EpharmD, yep it is pretty annoying that men think they have a say over our bodies. But I would rather they have support than tell us what we can and cannot do. That being said, I agree with @tgahagan that pro lifers are ridiculous to think that a heartbeat or the fact that its a human life makes it different from any other being. I am pro life personally because i don’t believe in killing any living things after they’ve started to develop, or gained life. But I think its completely immoral to kill other living beings including animals. I understand that to survive we must eat plants, but I think we should be better stewards of our ecosystems and be thankful for the nourishment plants give us rather than farming them and genetically modifying their natural genetic makeup.

I agree with Tim that nothing makes a human special compared to other beings. But I guess I disagree with killing it once it is in development. However that is my personal choice, I cannot change public policy nor do I wish to. After all, death is a part of life and a part of our universe.

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tim @tgahagan

I think Julia has a very well-thought out and logical perspective that I respect. I do think humans are special compared to many other beings, but that’s just me!

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James L. Riggs @jlriggs57aol-com

I will make this my last comment on this subject. I have seen a lot of changes in people and their attitudes towards different things. These attitudes are almost without exception toward the negative. But I guess I did not realize the full extent at which humanity is coming undone. If we have come to the point that human life is to mean no more than that of a chicken or dog, then truly we have become morally bankrupt and deserve whatever happens to us.

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Gary @grand-vizier

Like Rip Van Winkle (a famous book character who took a long nap for those who don’t read classics) I must have been asleep too long.
If you are too deliberately obtuse to understand that it’s not the heartbeat but the starting of the heartbeat indicating the beginning of the existence of a sentient being that is being referred to you really have lost something along the way..
Tim, listen to Grandma. She was giving you a hint.

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Brian @irie-brian

No matter how touchy of a subject, I feel there is a moral standard that must be addressed concerning abortion. In this day and age, abortion is not only about rights of contraception, it also has a lot to do with money and population control. Though it seems to be a black and white issue, legal abortion will let many nasty cats out of the bag….
First off, already in New York there are radio advertisements saying “Girl, you didn’t just go get yourself pregnant again! You better run to clinic and get that taken care of”. Abortion procedures generate a lot of revenue and doctors advertise their service to people whom are set to conceive. It should not be socially acceptable to dangle such a temptation in front of people undertaking the responsibility to make life. Abortions can not be taken back, it is a hard choice that if available should not be pushed or even seen as an easy option. I am not in a place to say a woman and her partner should not be able to choose, however I know that babies are our future. If the couple does decide to abort life, they should be financially responsible for service and it should not be funded by tax player dollars, if it is that that means we are funding the termination of others life.
What will be next, doctors leaving commercials saying, “life getting you down, you feel like giving up? Well we have a solution, quick easy and painless. Just 1 shot and you never need to worry again!,”. I know that that is an extreme slippery slope, but to me that is morally a very similar situation. We need to be weary in policy we create, and know where it will lead us to.

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Brian @irie-brian

@ Tim. I am with you on letting people do as they please however to answer your question on what makes human contraception different than animal. consciousness will determine how we perceive life. If you have ever germinated a seed, you will see a mucous layer form around the seed to protect the rising root, the protective layer will shine like an aura, this is the life in the seed, but what makes human so special, is we can perceive this life.
We can perceive the Love that is hopefully being shared during intercourse.
2nd the passion experienced
Next, the power of choice the woman holds to care for the new life breathed into her, will she keep it? Will she smoke, drink, eat organically, stay away from caffeine, will she make sacrifice to ensure this fetus may live. Does her “mate” support her, do they have the support of friends and family? The fact that some people are pro life at all is proof of the instinctual attachment to all life.
I know all of this is more spiritual fact than physical evidence, however if in tune to the spirit of truth, you will know that mana (life force) is in all things. Even animals, but if we want to treat others like we treat animals because of our similarities, than we better start treating the animals better.

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tim @tgahagan

Brian, I think you are totally right that consciousness is an important factor in what makes life amazing (unlike the arbitrary standard of a heartbeat. or the start of a heartbeat). I feel confident that a 2-day-old embryo is not conscious, though a 9-month-old fetus, may be. I don’t know exactly where the line is, but often it is clear where it is not. And like Julia and you, I think some animals possess awareness too. And I think that’s important to think about, though I really don’t want to stop eating steak.

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Ryan Hill @foaryan

Only tackling the death penalty issue.

In cases where the murder is beyond the shadow of a doubt (i.e. guilty plea) and someone is on death row, I say a speedy execution should take place every time. As pointed out it does reduce the cost of keeping a death row inmate imprisoned while waiting.

However, in cases where there is dispute, say the convicted murder continues to deny the act, or the circumstances are questionable, etc., I think we need to look at the death penalty with a little more caution. There have been numbers of cases where someone’s innocence was proved years after the conviction.

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shane @skennedy

I consider myself “pro-life” but at the same time I believe that women do have the choice, for whatever they so chose. The sad thing is I have heard stories of it being used as a form a birth control which in my opinion is just disgusting.
As for the death penalty, I used to be all for the death penalty. there are certain crimes where the perpetrator should not be allowed walk this earth, even behind bars. Why I don’t like the death penalty…1) easy way out for criminals. if a violent criminal is executed, it should be a very painful death. Not 3 shots in the arm and you quietly go to sleep, 2) in no way should it cost so much to execute someone. and 3) its a true statement that there probably are some on death row that could be innocent due to poor police work.

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terrell @progressivevoice

I don’t belive in death penalty, expect in the case of murder of a child and teen, rape, mass killing, and killing of the president. The system has to many errors. We take to long. Geogre Zimmeran should be on death row. Abortion I support because it’s a women choice.

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Steve Ja @sdj54321

Well I will start with the Death penalty. I am not a strong supporter of it, however I feel it does serve a purpose on capital punishment. I agree that there tends to be an excessive amount of appeals. The system is not perfect however so having the power of at least one appeal should be there, but 3-4-5-6 where do we draw the line?

Abortion I am against in all cases, except extreme cases where if the baby isnt aborted there will be two deaths instead of one. Some will argue what about rape and incest? Horrible situation for any individual to be in, however the life growing inside had absolutely nothing to do with the circumstance in which it was created. Does killing the unborn baby actually help the healing process, or does it actually create more problems down the road when you start thinking what if I kept it. The memories of the incident will be there for life and if you can bring up another life to be better than the person who did this to you, you have made this world a better place. Innocent lives should not be political discussion as far as I’m concerned, but they are cause it’s legal to kill off an innocent life. Unborn babies have a voice in me

Id like to actually have discussions with people who have had abortions in all situations and get their thoughts aswell.

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